FBI Distorted Data to Minimize Numbers of Armed Civilians Intercepting Shooters
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is known to be a good chef when it comes to cooking the books. Want to guess who they are serving when they make a pie of gun shooting numbers, customizing it with choice placement of figures representing good guys with guns?
Last weekend (August 24), Just the News published a story about the analysis of data on incidents involving active shooters in the country from 2014 to 2024. The analysis was done by the Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC) and presented in a report put together in June this year. The key finding of the center’s analysis was the understatement by the FBI of cases where armed civilians used guns to stop active shooters.
In plain language, the FBI lied to the public by distorting the actual numbers of good guys with guns that saved lives by taking out or intercepting the criminals with guns during shootings.
The details of the CPRC report show that the FBI counted only 14 cases of armed civilians stopping active shooters in the 10 years from 2014 to 2024. But CPRC found out 561 such incidents – a massive disparity in the count.
CPRC, the watchdog on crime stats, also revealed how the FBI played the data to minimize the numbers of good guys with guns stopping shooters. As reported in the analysis:
According to the CPRC, the FBI’s data is off, in part, because in some cases civilians who intervened were listed as “security guards,” even when they were private citizens. The group also found that armed bystanders who thwarted attacks were not counted if the suspects fled.
In addition, the FBI used other labels like “domestic disputes” and “retaliation murders” to exclude entire incidents from the count of active shooter cases, thus reducing the numbers of armed civilian interceptions of shooters.
The FBI’s perceived motive in such data twisting is obviously to further the leftist anti-gun narrative that denies the benefit of gun ownership by downplaying its value in public safety. The FBI’s data is cited by the anti-gun leftist media as evidence of this position, as the CPRC noted:
While the FBI includes cases where civilians stop active shooters, the news media frequently relies on the limited number of these cases to argue that such interventions are rare.
John R. Lott, the president of CPRC, wrote an op-ed for The Federalist earlier this year, titled “Trump’s FBI Reforms Need To Include Ending Its Data Distortions On Crime” (February 14, 2025). Lott, a former Department of Justice (DOJ) advisor, pointed at the implication of such data distortion by the FBI in his article – controlling the political debate over gun ownership. He wrote that the problem of data distortion goes beyond the FBI:
The FBI isn’t the only agency that hides or distorts data. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) under the Biden administration suppressed data proving that armed citizens help prevent crime by removing its estimates of defensive gun uses from its website.
The CPRC analysis of the real numbers of good guys with guns stopping crimes and saving lives validates the conservative skepticism of information coming from federal agencies. It makes sense to carefully check out the whole recipe and cooking details of the pie called “Facts” before taking a bite.
If I defend myself I won’t do it for the fame and glory
Note that there will be no counterpoint to this from The Dumpster who does not respond to commentary. I am amazed that you mighty righties of the tighty whities accept this Pakistani conservative with open acceptance for any bullshit he spews.
Before we start, note I am a gun owner, grew up hunting, used to walk out my back door for a morning hunt on the 1,000 acres surrounding my home. I have a pheasant tail plume on my mantle from an early shoot but my better half stopped me from further displays. My issues with guns include our ability to allow bad guys to buy guns, easily, our ability to buy and stockpile basically mil-spec guns with lcm’s, and how guns are the major cause of death for our children. Guns are a very large cause of death and the predominate cause of violent death in America; we apparently are a more dangerous country than most developed nations. The gunnies will tell you the gun is a tool. OK, but a dangerous tool in all hands. The gunnies would have you believe we kill by gun so much because we are crazier. Currently, it’s in vogue to blame mental health, but you can’t prove that, and we are precluded from studying the effect of having 50 states with 50 sets of gun laws, and a variety of differing demographics resulting in a yearly toll of over 45,000-gun deaths with a fuck of a lot of anomalies as to the what’s and why’s. It’s a difficult analysis, the NRA has precluded the government from doing large, unbiased, statistically valid large-scale studies to understand things like: why VT is so gunnie, so safe, but TN sucks. Is NJ really safer because of tough gun laws? Does FL make significant GDP by exporting guns to tough gun control regions via the Iron Pipeline? Do city-based islands of tough laws do anything good or just strip guns from the good guys? Why are blues states safer than red states? Why all the school shootings? Big questions requiring big studies requiring big money, which is precluded by the CDC based on NRA lobbying against said study. The CDC cannot do primary research into the leading cause of death for children. So, we compile data bits, like Lott, like the FBI, often merging studies for an apples to oranges vantage point, and then bitch at each other over the imperfect results.
In this story, more lies from The Dumpster as he starts with “FBI Distorted Data to Minimize Numbers of Armed Civilians Intercepting Shooters.” It’s a complete lie as the FBI data is statistically valid and accurate. Period. Unlike the author, the FBI has a documented scientific definition of methodologies and copious raw data online. He has John Lott who did some half-assed un-peer-reviewed study that says different, no methodologies, no documentation, probably no raw database.
The author’s source is John Lott, a known, biased, gunnie for decades. John Lott, who has been proven to have fabricated studies, has many studies shot down by experts for cause like unscientific practices not following the laws of statistical analysis. On one disputed study, Lott couldn’t produce the raw data and finally claimed a hard drive crash…Yea John, dog peed on my homework again…. Ever hear of backups? John Lott, who created fictional people to post positive ratings and comments for his real self. Gotta love a man who loves himself….a lot…. John Lott, who went after authors dunning him with a defamation suit. Lott lost. His CPRC organization is known for its right bias and failing a number of fact-checks on accuracy. The failed fact checks are documented at Mediabias.com, take a look. At best, Lott/CPRC results should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
The Dumpster laps this stuff up like a dog at the bowl.
That said, I grabbed my salt cellar and tossed some grains over my back for luck. Turns out that Lott and The Dumpster are correct to say that the FBI survey does not count many aspects of good guys with guns — like guys who wave their guns and the bad guys run away. The FBI clearly have stated that and their reasoning. Can’t find that in The Dumpster, that would be real news. It’s a definitional issue clearly stated by the FBI methodologies. The FBI is clear about how they count, what they count, what they don’t count, why, and what the results are. They distort nothing, they minimized nothing; The Dumpster is a lying dog of low morals. And Joe’s got fleas from sleeping with the dogs.
Side note: in my earlier research over a decade ago, I searched for good guys with guns done bad. I could find little. I really tried, and I am a pretty good researcher. Just no there, there. It seems that good guys with guys rarely miss, rarely go off the reservation, and the results bespeak the appropriateness of concealed carry laws. Damn, I screwed the pooch on that one. Actually, I stand with the founders against the heinous act of concealing weapons and prefer open carry laws. But the data seems to point to the fact that good guys with guns rarely miss. That does not mean Lott’s data is good or that The Dumpster does not lie. Lott’s data sucks and The Dumpster frequently lies, for effect, for his bias.
Side, side note: The good guys with guns data leads me to support allowing Militias to have much greater access to higher powered, higher tech weapons. Tanks, bazookas, full auto’s, backpack smart missiles, drones, whatever. I think these guys and organizations can be trusted, given proper contract stipulations, monitoring, and controls, and we can let the gunnies have much more fun there as a team instead of lone wolves in our neighborhoods and cities. IMO, that’s what the 2A is all about —- defense of the nation, not your bedroom. Just a simple handgun or long gun without an lcm can suffice for home protection. IMO.
Lott has been bitching about FBI stats for years when instead he could easily solve the problem himself as the left did over mass shootings, child shootings, etc. Of course, the author is clueless as to the facts and history of the subject he is writing about. What do you expect when you read from The Dumpster. I studied guns starting a few decades ago. Today, I hate returning to the subject as no change can be affected as long as the gunnies keep their heads up their asses. And little change has been affected to improve gun safety in America. We just don’t care about it. Enough. I have become comfortably numb on the topic and just make changes to protect family since the US is fucked on this.
But here we go down memory lane: In the beginning, there was one-on-one murder, and mass murder as defined by the FBI: four dead by one shooter in one location. That was it, and everything else did not count. That’s how the data systems were structured and given 50 states of differing data bits, very hard to change. If you have ever been shot, or shot at, you realize it’s a life-changing moment. Most shots do not kill. That’s a lot of traumata not counted by the FBI. Because when a bullet rips though you, it totally changes your life, attitudes, and outlook. Think auto accident on steroids. But the FBI did change over time; we made them change with facts. The Dumpster is too stupid to realize that.
Here’s how and when the FBI updated the data sources: *https://www.google.com/search?q=has+the+FBI+changed+how+it+records+violent+crime+from+1952+current+date&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1134US1134&oq=has+the+FBI+changed+how+it+records+violent+crime+from+1952+current+date&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBBjc3ajBqOagCALACAeIDBBgBIF8&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8*
As you can note, Obama did a lot of that.
Then mass shootings were added as noted: *https://www.google.com/search?q=when+did+the+FBI+add+mass+shootings+to+its+statistics&sca_esv=7a86b5436430bbb9&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1134US1134&hl=en-US&ei=JQC2aN61GJer5NoPx5Xk6A0&oq=when+did+the+FBI+add+mass+shootings+to+its+statistics&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIjV3aGVuIGRpZCB0aGUgRkJJIGFkZCBtYXNzIHNob290aW5ncyB0byBpdHMgc3RhdGlzdGljczIHECEYoAEYCjIHECEYoAEYCjIHECEYoAEYCjIHECEYoAEYCjIHECEYoAEYCkjKggFQki9Y9WhwCHgBkAECmAG6AaABoA6qAQQ2LjExuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIXoALZDKgCD8ICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAg0QABgDGLQCGOoCGI8BwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIREC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwHCAg4QLhiABBixAxiDARiKBcICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAgsQABiABBiRAhiKBcICBBAAGAPCAgUQABiABMICCBAAGIAEGMkDwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgYQABgWGB7CAgUQIRifBcICCBAAGKIEGIkFwgIFEAAY7wXCAggQABiABBiiBMICBRAhGKsCwgIHECEYChirApgDBfEFq8FqmBSPs6qIBgGQBgiSBwQxNC45oAfiiQGyBwM2Ljm4B8YMwgcGMi4xMy44yAc1&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp*
Much of this was done because the left said FUCK YOU to the FBI data and rolled their own data reports. Unlike Lott and The Dumpster whining about it, we changed it. We created the “Gun Violence Archive (GVA) which is a not-for-profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and then post and disseminate it online, primarily if not exclusively on this website and summary ledgers at http://www.facebook.com/gunviolencearchive and on Twitter @gundeaths. It is hoped that this information will inform and assist those engaged in discussions and activities concerning gun violence, including analysis of proposed regulations or legislation relating to gun safety usage. All we ask is to please provide proper credit for use of Gun Violence Archive data and advise us of its use. GVA is not, by design an advocacy group. The mission of GVA is to document incidents of gun violence and gun crime nationally to provide independent, verified data to those who need to use it in their research, advocacy or writing.”
And no, I had no part in the creation. But yes, in the beginning, I loaded a fuck of a lot of data here. Then I noticed the previously unreported child murders, classified as “tragedies” instead. I got sick, the personal pain was too much and I had to move on.
Lott could do the same thing. The GVA is a self-reporting database that requires source material, usually press clippings, for verification. It changed the world of gun violence reporting and forced the FBI to define and accept “mass shootings” to coincide with their existing definition of murder and mass murder. A beautiful simple thing that Lott could adopt in minutes to prove his point.
The point is: The FBI did not distort or minimize anything: The Dumpster is a liar.
Lott’s point could be easily supported by a GVA-like database.
We should study, via quantifiable, statistical, scientific analysis, gun violence IF only the NRA would support the CDC doing so. Until then, we can continue to piss into the wind as the FBI, Lott, and the author have proven here. The anomalies will continue to bite all of us in the argument asses as we try to determine what the fuck is going on here that makes the USA the most gun happy, gun killing, developed nation on the planet.
Dunger you are wrong about guns being the number one cause of children’s deaths. Nobody can back that up with proof. So quit quoting bullshit from liberal rags and talking dickheads on tv
Willie says I am wrong about guns being the number one cause of children’s deaths because I offered no proof. He is correct, yet he offers no evidence, no proof, so he’s BUSTED.
He says Kennedy’s CDC is a bullshit liberal rag, go figure. Not sure what “talking dickheads on TV” he’s referencing, but his foul language does nothing to advance his argument. Just lowers it.
He’s correct that I did not provide back-up proof and I appreciate the discussion, push-back, just sans the awful, useless name calling just to stroke his own vanities.
IF he had actually examined the issue, he would have found some standing for his lame argument to protect the gunnies from their shame. First, the definition of “children” is 1-17: that’s where guns are the major illness killing our kids. It precludes “infants” as being 0-1 which would change the results. Especially that since Trump, and now Kennedy, govern our health, infant deaths have increased. More so in red states, go figure. But, if you add infants, the gun rate drops. Similarly, I think if you add 18-19, the rates change.
BUT — for 1-17, GUNS ARE THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH for children, for the last three years. Congratulations gunnies, you have made a difference! Remember, for every kid you kill, that’s one less that can be killed in the future. Be proud. Deny it. No shame in that, or is there.
And to satisfy Willie, from FOX:
*https://www.foxnews.com/us/guns-leading-cause-death-children-cdc.amp*
And FOX again:
*https://www.livenowfox.com/news/gun-violence-youth-deaths.amp*
Now, Willie does have a point, not the one on top of his misshapen head, but on his point, he failed miserably to make it with evidence or proof. IF he had looked, he might have seen where FOX added aborted children who never lived to come up with:
*https://www.foxnews.com/media/gavin-newsom-challenged-declaring-guns-1-killer-kids-america-abortion.amp*
You should see what happens if you add all pregnancy attempts, with our without birth control. Those dreams never die. Or if you take out the older children:
*https://www.foxnews.com/us/teen-violence-drove-spike-gun-deaths-contrary-popular-talking-point-expert.amp*
Feel better now? If you count the unborn and discount the older kids, you win!!!! Amazingly though, the same number of kids 1-17 still die and if that’s acceptable to you, so be it. If that’s the America you like because the 2A is so much more important that our kids, so be it.
But you can’t hide the truth as to what kills more kids, 1-17 than anything else in America: GUNS. And behind every gun is a gunnie murderer.
Bring on the foul language and name calling to prove your point. Top of head that is :>)
What’s a gunnie? A pissed off trannie? A gang banger? Citizens who exercise their rights? I agree that kids are probably more vulnerable in blue cities, like LA, Chicago, NY, and yes, large cities in red states. Here’s an idea. Add 15 mandatory years in prison to the sentencing of felony charges involving a gun. Even if shots wasn’t fired. And 20 years added to the offense if the gun is fired. 25 years if the wounded or killed victim is a minor. A good motion. Do I have a second? Do we want to protect kids? Let’s do it and leave the 2nd amendment intact.
You relate a gunnie with a trannie. And for some reason, they are pissed off. Perhaps for being pissed on by pissants like you are in this passage.
From AI: “In the context of the U.S. military, particularly the Marine Corps, “gunny” is a widely used slang term for a Gunnery Sergeant. It’s an informal and common abbreviation for the rank of E-7 Gunnery Sergeant and is considered a term of respect and camaraderie, though its use can be at the Gunnery Sergeant’s discretion. The term became popular during World War II as a quick way to refer to the rank, and it continues to be used in military culture, movies, and books.” I use gunnie to refer to lovers of guns.
“I agree that kids are probably more vulnerable in blue cities, like LA, Chicago, NY, and yes, large cities in red states.” Agree with what? Yourself? Not me. I only mentioned the increased death rate for infants, especially in red states. And stop with the feckless, fact-less cities are more dangerous crap. Chicago has a 17.5/100K murder rate. Louisiana/19.3, MS/19.4 and AL/14.8. FYI: in general, red states have higher murder rate than blue states. PERIOD. Don’t agree with yourself, look it up instead.
*https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/red-state-declares-emergency-hitting-172249232.html*
*chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ajpmonline.org/pb/assets/raw/Health%20Advance/journals/amepre/AJPM_Jan2022_PR_Rodriguez_FINAL-1631635992093.pdf*
As to added time for use of a gun in a crime, yes, I have said so for over a decade. And reduce lcm size to a reasonable number like 10. And make background checks universal. Digitize the gun owner database and let the NRA manage, pay them. Digitize gun searches and let the NRA response to ATF requests for tracing crime guns ASAP and not just ASAP for the rich guys. And charge parents whenever a kid gets a gun to kill; no more “it’s just a terrible accident.” A few more that don’t affect the 2A but could make our lives safer. Horist has a pretty good list. My favorite is, from me, is let the militias gain access to higher power and smarter weapons to be used to defend the nation, the real priority of the 2A. I think this could be safe, and a win-win for having fun, protecting the nation, and getting some of this crap out of our neighborhoods.
Doubt that will do much for the kids though.