Big lie versus big lies
The far left – that combine of Democrats and the compliant media – has coined and standardized the “The Big Lie” as the buzz words for those who continue to claim that President Trump won the election. The term also includes anyone who believes that significant vote fraud was present in the 2020 election – but perhaps not necessarily enough to overturn the election results. Though they lump the two groups together for political propaganda purposes, they are not the same – and it is important to understand the difference.
I fall into that latter category. I have seen the history and the current evidence of real vote manipulation. It does exist in every election. However, I have not yet seen convincing evidence that the election was stolen – but I do not discount that possibility. That has been my view since the election – and nothing has changed it. Yes, I have seen the claims of both sides. I totally disagree with the left’s claim of no vote fraud, but for me, the jury is still out on the scope of the fraud.
With more than 50 years of experience in elections – including investigating and on-the-ground fighting against vote fraud – I can guarantee that the Democrats’ claim of zero vote fraud is … well … a BIG LIE. It is a dangerous lie because it can lead us to overlook vote fraud and not take protective measures to prevent it as much as possible. And that is the best we can do because it is humanly impossible to completely eliminate vote fraud.
What is amazing to me is how the left-wing media refuses to report on bona fide instances of vote fraud. There are literally thousands of reports of suspected election fraud in conjunction with the 2020 election.
Some of the election fraud is self-evident. We have instances all across the country of vote counts that exceed the number of ballot applications. We know that hundreds of thousands of people who were ineligible voted in the 2020 election – people who no longer resided in the voting district or were dead. Those are prima facie cases of vote fraud.
Democrats and their media allies point to the low level of prosecutions for vote fraud. That is because it is not a prosecutable crime in most cases. Because the ballot process is secret, there is no way to trace who might have committed vote fraud – and no way to correct the miscount even the obvious cases.
Yes, some cases do get prosecuted – and some people are found guilty – but they are few and far between. Prosecutors and judges who owe their positions to the political bosses are not likely to mete out justice to those manipulating the vote count.
That is why prevention is of paramount importance. We must have laws that eliminate or harden the weak spots in the ballots’ chain-of-custody. Laws need to address where vote fraud can happen – and we know it has happened — as a preventative measure. That is what is happening in some 48 states at this moment – and contrary to another BIG LIE, it is not only Republican state legislators voting for these bills. Does the GOP really control the legislatures of 48 states? They are addressing the weak points in the chain-of-custody. They are doing their job – unlike the Texas Democrat legislators who are engaged in a political pout like a toddler not getting his or her way.
Democrats cry that these new laws make it harder to vote – especially for minorities. If ease of voting were the only consideration, then we should have no registration … no identification check … no special hours. That would most certainly make it easier to vote – and we would truly have no provable cases of vote fraud.
Voting must have REASONABLE limitations – such things as established hours and locations, proper identification, ballot security and accurate tabulating. NOTHING in the election laws being proposed across the country makes it UNREASONABLY difficult for people to register and vote … nothing. They do, however, make the process more secure.
In fact, it is left-wing arrogance and elitism – and an insult to poor folks and minorities — to suggest that they are too stupid … too incapacitated … or even too busy to cast a ballot. Democrats and the left are conjuring up those old racist attributions of Negroes as being ignorant and lazy.
Arguably, weeks of early voting makes it unnecessary to even have mail-in ballots except for the truly disabled. Ponder that. Voters have weeks – including weekends – to travel to a nearby location at their convenience to preform what is said to be one of their most sacred rights and responsibilities — and the left says it is too much of a burden. And on top of that we DO have mail-in balloting.
Imagine if Uncles Sam changed the rules and said you could only vote between 6 a.m. and 7 p.m. on a single day – as was the case for approximately 200 years — but you would get $1000 for voting. I bet we would have record turnout. It is not a person’s ability to vote under all the expanded rules – or under any of the new laws — it is a matter of willingness.
Maybe because I am of the generation that once had to stand in long lines in rain and cold to cast my vote on Election DAY that I have less sympathy for the whiners and snowflakes advancing these preposterous political narratives. If you cannot vote with all the times and ways available to you, then stay home. Just stop all the caterwauling.
So, there ‘tis.
TLDR Summary for you guys;
Larry had to wait in long lines for hours to vote in the freezing cold, with nothing but cardboard for shoes, you should also.
Not only is voting a right, it is a civic duty, one that keeps our democracy strong. I can’t for the life of me understand why we shouldn’t make it as easy as possible to vote. I file my taxes online with no worries, why can’t we vote online? I know other Countries do. Don’t tell me we don’t have the money, we just wasted close to a trillion dollars on Afghanistan. We can certainly figure out a way to securely vote from the comfort of our own home.
I did get a snicker when the Harvard lecturer complained about Democratic “elitists”. Thanks for the chuckles.
Is cheating also a right and duty?
I suppose if you can establish with any credibility that there is cheating , we can address it. Or were you talking about the extreme gerrymandering that the GOP mapped out? Because when it comes down to it, regardless of how many representatives we send to DC, Dems represent a whole hell of a lot more people than republicans do.
Holy cow. I was wondering what happened to the AZ audit… turns out it is on hold because the CEO and two other senior Auditors have COVID and are very sick. I guess we will have to wait for the results. Hopefully The Pillow guy will come through with the information that will prove that it’s not a lie.
Holy cow? What? Are you from India?
Well Mr. Horist , if that ain’t voter fraud then what the hell is?
Larry, we’ve all heard your stories of ancient times when the bad old Democrats controlled Chicago… Guess what, all the old racist cheating Democrats became Republicans in the 1960’s and ’70s. Why is it that you can’t seem to remember that part?
There is certainly a little bit of fraud and confusion – people occasionally vote twice or in the wrong place, mostly by accident, and a few Trump supporters thought they had a God- (or Trump-) given right to cheat. The cases that have been publicized could be counted on fingers and toes of a few people or less. All of the “prima fascia” cases you cite are unproven allegations, with no evidence to back them up. Just because there are more votes cast (and I presume that you mean by mail-in ballot) than ballots requested could be (and most likely is) just a (requested ballot) counting error – sometimes people go to the town hall (or whatever place is in charge) and just get a ballot, fill it out, and hand it in. I’ve done that many times. It wasn’t mailed out, so it didn’t get counted as “requested”. I can’t guarantee that dead people don’t vote, but sometimes people vote by mail and die before the election. I’ve only heard of one case where a Trump supporter voted for his dead wife. Most voting precincts maintain good control of their voting list – it’s not 1930’s Chicago anymore. You shouldn’t be making allegations like that unless you have some evidence to back it up. A few hard-core conspiracy theorists have said “we can’t prove it’s false, so it must be true” – if you fall into that camp, or you have no evidence to support your claims, then you deserve to get ignored.
If you have hard evidence of voting fraud (or any evidence, for that matter)… by all means, bring it up here and let’s dissect it. So far, the only report I’ve seen on PBP was about “the Italian internet voting fraud”. There were big proclamations that “this changes everything”… until you look at the details: First reported by an Albanian fake news site… claiming that US votes all over Europe were being funneled through a military bases in Germany and Italy and were being intercepted and vote-totals changed (US citizens abroad can ONLY vote by mail, so this is preposterous). There were other details about when and where that were just as easily debunked, but the point is that PBP fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
I count votes for my small town, and I’ll guarantee you that there are more spoiled ballots than there are fraudulent votes. People turn in blanks sheets, they write their names on the ballots (identifying marks disqualify ballots), they vote for only the first office on the ballot, or sometimes mark more than one person. Our town government works really hard to make sure every vote is counted, everything is above board, and there are no secrets. I’ve also audited ballot recounts at the state level – at least two people from opposing parties get the opportunity to look at (but not touch) every ballot. Sometimes one party (almost always Republicans, more likely Tea Party types) will challenge EVERY ballot, in which case, the counting stops and they quickly get replaced by someone who takes the responsibility seriously. But every ballot that is questionable is set aside (for example, what looks like a vote may be a stray pencil mark, or the ballot is potentially spoiled) and reviewed by a bipartisan panel. I’ve never seen vote totals change by more than one or two votes per thousand.
You’re telling your own whoppers here (and as usual, putting words in the mouths of all Democrats) – nobody says there is ZERO fraud. There also aren’t laws being passed to restrict voting in 48 states. You’re lumping together Republican voting restriction laws in the same category as Democratic voting laws meant to make voting easier. In Democratic controlled states they’re loosening restrictions on voting times, mail-in voting, the number of polling places that are available, and passing laws to prevent wholesale purging of voter rolls. The Republicans are restricting access to voting by mail, giving partisan officials the ability to override or replace a local election board, allowing districts to purge the rolls of anyone who hasn’t voted in 4 years, rolling back polling places and times.
It’s a disingenuous argument to say that poor people would be sure to vote if they were given $1000 – absent that, THEY’RE POOR, and need to work to make money. And the poorest people generally work for the worst kinds of businesses that say “No work, no pay. We’re not giving you paid time off to go vote. Or any time off, for that matter. If you leave work, don’t bother coming back”. These are the same communities where the number of voting sites has been reduced in traditionally Democrat strongholds – whether that be large populations of minorities, poor, or elderly. I grew up near Louisville, KY, and the only voting place for most of the downtown area (heavily black and Democratic) is the KY State Fair Grounds. It can handle a lot of people, but hundreds of thousands of people have to take a bus to get there, stand in line for hours, and get back to work. On the other hand, the white areas around the city all have their own voting precincts with much fewer voters and more voting places. And if you go to vote, and they tell you, “sorry, you’re not on the latest voter registration list”, how many people are going to be able to straighten that out by the end of the day? When they have to get back to work? It means they don’t get to vote, or they lose a day’s pay. And what happens when you stand in a long line all day and before you make it into the polls, they close? Or you’re elderly and can’t stand for 2 hours? Where it’s illegal for civic groups to hand out water or snacks. Some black churches have gone to vote as a group on Sundays after church, and Georgia Republicans specifically tried to cut off Sunday voting – how can you say that’s not targeted at a specific (minority) group?
I will guarantee you, that for every single instance of voter fraud you find, there are thousands or tens of thousands who were prevented from voting by the so-called “election integrity” rules that Republicans put in place. Yes, some that has been alleviated by expanding mail-in voting and expanded voting hours, but those are the very changes that Republicans are trying to outlaw with the current round of voter restriction laws, all based on the premise that there was “massive voter fraud”, for which there is no evidence. Republicans are continuing to use the “Big Lie” to gain an edge at the voting booth.
The foundation of Democracy is based on the right to vote. How can Republicans justify efforts to make it harder for some people than others, and not instead find ways to encourage everyone to vote? Winning seats by cheating only makes the government “of the People, by the People, for the People” weaker.
More from Bruder … the boy with the dunce cap. Every time you write, I see how hopelessly irrational and uninformed you are. Perhaps that is why you create all the straw man arguments in the windmills of your mind. Examples… your claim that I base my perspective on vote fraud on ancient information from my days in Chicago is wrong and only serves to what I assume you think is a clever attack on my age. I refer to vote fraud that incorporates years of experience to this day — and in places more than Chicago. While I believe that in your small community you do not see vote fraud, you fail to understand that it is primarily an issue in larger cities. Obviously, your experience limits your ability to understand the larger issue.
Your second major straw man is speculation based on an assumption — an erroneous assumption. As you stated, you ASSUMED that my reference to over voting was based on mail-in ballots — and then went on to give a hypothetical explanation why I might be wrong. Sorry … I was talking about cases involving folks going to the polls.
Your comprehension of my $1000 analogy was rather poor. Did I mention paying the poor or minorities? Geez. At least sharpen up your reading skills. But then again, most of your stuff shows a general ack of comprehension.
I have no idea what you have read on PBP. I thought you were responding to my commentaries. You have not seen anything about the Italians or Albanians from me. That is a cheap shot … to lay what others may or may not have written on me. But that is your sophomoric level of debate — with my apologies to sophomores.
You childhood experience in the south was telling … but not in the way you think. What ever you saw in keeping minorities away from the polls in your small southern community was the product of Democrat racism.
Your guarantee that for every instance of voter fraud there are thousands who were denied access tot he polls is such utter nonsense that you should be embarrassed for making that argument — much less putting a meaningless guarantee on it. With all the opportunities to cast a ballot NO ONE is blocked if they wish to vote. You are endorsing the racist notion that minorities and the poor are not sufficiently able or intelligent enough to vote during early voting, absentee voting or going to the polls on election day. Shame on you for that one.
I could go on rebutting your many comments over many weeks. But I only wanted to establish that you are intellectually unqualified for civil and rational debate. You are stridently partisan, possessed by passion but short on knowledge and reason. You comments will have traction only with people less informed than you.
Larry,
Windmills cause cancer
Ooh, looks like I’m living rent-free in Larry’s head again.
You make a blanket statement about Democrats cheating in cities all over the country… but you have no EVIDENCE. Then you use that to bash Democrats – that is what I would call a strawman.
Secondly – you don’t “apply” for a ballot when you go to the polls. You only apply for a mail-in ballot, which the local government sends you, and you fill out and send back. If you vote by machine, you don’t “apply” for a ballot. If I go to my local town hall, they hand me a ballot, no application necessary. One person gets one ballot, they cross them off the list, and when they hand it to the election supervisor they get their name crossed off the list again. They don’t count the number of people in the door, they count the number of ballots they receive. So, you apparently can’t explain what you’re talking about. And again, you have no EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing, just that one total of something doesn’t match up to another total of something else, so it’s strawman number two. If you do have evidence, print it, otherwise shut up about it and quit using it to “prove” that Democrats stole the election.
Your example of people packing the polls if they got $1000 and it not applying to poor people also makes no sense. People who can afford to, vote with or without an incentive. I personally wouldn’t accept a cash bonus for voting. It’s only going to increase the numbers of voters who have to make a decision between getting paid and spending a half a workday to go vote. And you want to blame me because you can’t write clearly?And by the way, I said “poor” but not “minorities”. That’s your bias, not mine. Let’s call that strawman #3.
Like it or not, you represent PBP as one of its senior writers – it you can’t accept that responsibility, then it’s time to retire. I said that the only time I’ve ever seen evidence of wrongdoing offered on this site was that one example, and it was totally bogus. If you didn’t write that story (and there’s no search engine on this website for me to look one way or the other), then you yourself have offered ZERO evidence of any fraud.
Yet another strawman – I have never said that minorities or the poor are “not sufficiently able or intelligent” – again, like you often do, you’re putting words in the mouths of Democrats again, and then building up your argument on that. What I said is that in many Republican areas, the government in charge throws up roadblocks – like reducing the number of polling places, reducing the times when they’re available, limiting the opportunities for mail in voting, etc. Because of COVID, many of the voting and registration rules were relaxed, and Republicans got trounced – hence all the anti-voter legislation in the Republican held states in the current legislative cycle. They don’t want to allow the elections to get somewhat fair, because they’ll lose. In the states where Democrats outnumber Republicans (Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Michigan, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, New Hampshire), the state and/or federal legislatures are nevertheless dominated by Republicans. Other states, such as Texas (where Republicans have a 3-point advantage) or Wisconsin (D/R tied) , the split is for Republicans at a much higher rate than the population. You think the Republicans are just “lucky”? No, they have gerrymandered and legislated themselves into an almost permanent majority of the government in those states. Cracks are appearing – Georgia Democrats managed to take the two Senate seats, but the legislature has fought back hard with laws that make it harder for Democratic areas to vote. It’s a numbers game and Republicans are playing it – there’s no reason to assume that blacks or the poor are less smart or less able – if you target areas with strong Democratic majorities (which may be poor or minority), cut the number of polling sites, or delete a whole bunch of registrations, or reduce the times when voting is available, or add one more requirement that makes people go to a state office for “a simple (additional) piece of identification, it’s going to cause some people not to be able to vote. If you’ve already got those areas gerrymandered, then you’ve got a near-permanent majority (until Republicans do something stupid to piss off a lot of voters, like an attempted coup, or increasing the spread of COVID in their state).
I said I grew up in Kentucky, but the voting situation is from the last election. It’s not something controlled by Democrats of the 1960’s. This is your favorite strawman, to equate the racist Democrats of the 60’s and 70’s to the Democrats of today, and use that as your argument to bash Democrats. The Republicans of today are the racist Democrats that Reagan recruited into the Republican party with his “southern strategy”. You know it, you deny it, but you love to regurgitate it.
So, Larry, next time I get under your skin, don’t stoop personal insults to cover up your own shortcomings.
Bruder … I have a bit of time tonight, so I will respond to your latest. Since I rarely respond to you and you obsessively respond to me, it might be that i have taken up residency in your head. Your fixation on me and this site is every telling. And you are not intellectually or socially equipped to maintain a civil and intelligent dialogue. It is why I mostly ignore you and allow you comments speak for themselves — and they do not reflect well on you. For example … you say one does not apply for a ballot at the polling place. I cannot say what the procedures are in you admittedly small down polling place, but I have never voted anywhere that I did not have to apply for a ballot by showing my identification and getting checked off of a list. In some cases, I had to sign a request for a ballot. I you saying that in your small town they just hand out ballots at the door like some shopping flyer?
And as for your uninformed claim that you grew up under GOP rule in Kentucky … geez. Between 1947 and 2003 there was only ONE Republican governors for one four-year terms. The GOP did not take control of the KY House until 2016 — after 95 years of Dem rule. The Senate in 2020. Again you get the dunce cap for your lack of knowledge — even about your formative years. So what is your point about the most recent election in your home state? And if you go to the county level, you find democrats in control of voting — especially in large minority districts. If there is suppression, that is where you will find it. Nothing in the state laws .. or the new laws — prevents a person from voting if they wish to do so. You would have to be seriously compromised if you cannot vote early, by mail or on Election Day — and with the support of all those working on get out the vote efforts. You may not earn four Pinocchios — because I cannot know if you lie … but four dunce caps would be appropriate. I shall now go back to ignoring you.
If I fill out an application for a credit card, I put in name and address and details, then I wait for it to be processed. If I want an absentee ballot, I fill out an application and wait for it to be processed. If I go to a store to buy something, even if I have to pay with a credit card and show ID, I am not filling out an application. When I vote, I state my name, show some ID, and I’m handed a ballot, no application required. You can argue this all you want, but voting is not filling out an application.
And I never said I grew up under Republican rule in Kentucky, you just made that up. I said I grew up there, period. The voting issues I mentioned are from the last election, period. Anything else you’ve claimed about my time in Kentucky came out of your own head.
Larry, you seem confused about the simplest things, it’s time to retire.
Winning seats by cheating? Lol. The democrats have been doing it for years. No one is trying to stop voting. Just do it fair and have valid ID. Oh I forgot.Democrats doesn’t believe that blacks can have ID. But they have to identify themselves when they report to court hearings and parole officers. And let’s not forget signing up for welfare. But the democrats are obsessed with voter fraud. Is that racist enough for you? There’s more where that came from. You always want to lecture others about racism but your reasoning is so stupid that it’s funny
Joseph you count votes? I wouldn’t trust you in a shit house with a muzzle on
Yet another colorful metaphor about shit… You seem to be into shit more than anyone I’ve ever spoken (or written) with. I still get the feeling your subconscious is trying to tell us something.
Just another typical Horowitz commentary, long of hypothesis, short on factual data. You choose to ignore that the folks in charge of the contested areas all say their tabulations were accurate (a good many of these are Republicans by the way who undoubtedly voted for Trump-definitely the case in Georgia and Arizona), and instead spout nonsense that you read on the internet. And yes, there were instances of fraud, but those I have heard of were all committed by Republican’s voting for DT. But that part of the “fraud” story is never presented by the conservative media. Shame! Time for you to retire to the tennis courts since you can’t be bothered to provide facts for your commentary….
I couldn’t agree more
Ditto to Mike.
This is a feckless, fact-less, opinion piece, short on facts, short on support, and replete with allegations, innuendo, and conspiracy theories. That’s two in a row Larry, I am a bit concerned. Is Florida Covid Claustrophobia setting in? Can’t wear a mask, can’t go outside? Cuz there is hardly a fact presented here in support of your opinion. Just a lot of allegations and innuendo.
Larry, everyone is for stopping voter fraud. Democrats are against voter suppression. Not many are against ID verification; most Democrats ARE against adding restrictions during an election year as Republicans have tried many times in the past. I guess the same could be said on this election the other way as we used emergency powers to open voting up during the pandemic year. But with over 60 court cases, in over 5 states, all tossed, most for lack of evidence, you have no standing Larry, and you have provided none. Most of the courts, so far, have said you are full of shit. The 3-week count in AZ is past five months and asking for more time as people can’t even figure out what the oversight committee even is, much less how it could be delayed due to covid. They are asking for a few more weeks, last time that meant five months….. Again, so far, you are full of shit when it comes to fraud recounts. Over and over.
Plus, we are not snowflakes, we are not whiners. Pretty funny after you crying so hard in your beer over The Big Lie branding. You guys invented political and personal branding – do you want me to run down the list? You have to admit, co-opting Hitler’s and Goebbel’s favorite tag line is pretty good, right? Crooked Hillary, Gov. Moonbeam, and Shifty Schumer are all smiling. Gotta love a name caller getting upset over name calling. iMAGA that. We may be a bit slow on the uptake, but once we get started, yeah, we can do this branding thing. Especially easy against tighty whitey mighty righties with soprano-style knotted knickers. See, thanks Larry for setting me free. Free, free at last to brand em just like Larry…..
Bad op ed piece Larry, below your normal bar.
I see you endorsed Mike with your ditto. I do not respond to him because of his overtly anti-Semitism. He has expressed his disdain for Israel and Jews in the past … and he repeated changes my name to a common Jewish name as a pejorative consistent with his negative views. He does this even though he knows I am not Jewish. I respect his right of free speech and I invoke my right to think of him as a contemptable human being not worthy of engagement. His opinions are not the opinions of a rational and intelligent human being … but you can take support from whom every you please, but it does not enhance you own points as you may wish.
And yet you say nothing to the open bigotry and race-baiting that Dan spews out in almost every one of his posts… Do you need a ladder to come down off that high horse you’re on?*
Race baiting? Wow!!! I’m honored. But the truth is that I respect colored people. They are so good at playing the victim. I even gave away my confederate flag. Lol.
Larry may be on a high horse, but you’re usually in the gutter… maybe that’s why you talk about shit so often.
Sorry, I would not have ditto’d if I caught the name-changing race-baiting crap he is pulling. Personally, I would be honored to be taken as a person of the Jewish faith but doing it for a little race baiting is condemnable on oh so many levels. My thoughts are the same, sans the name calling.
Now proven fact is there is no such thing as an election without some fraud in some way, it might effect a local election where a couple of votes wins or looses, but in a National election for a President there are to many safety features built into the system through the laws in the State and federal Government. In 2016 Trump said there was massive voter fraud ands set up a voter fraud panel which actually found about 11 cases USA wide of a voter breaking he law about voting, after about 18 months it was closed down. Now in 2020 Trump started even before the election convincing his supporters that if he did not win the other side cheated with fraud. When a President can not break 50% approval in 4 years in office and has the highest consistent disapproval rating of any president should say something for why Trump lost, but one other consideration of the 5 Presidents who have not won the Popular vote only one won reelection that was Bush who was on his way out when 9/!! horror happened.
Actually, 9-11 was in 2001, a half year after Bush started. He got support from Republicans AND Democrats, because it was an attack on our soil, and people support leadership in an emergency. You’re still correct that it carried him into a second term.
The outgoing Clinton administration warned Bush about Bin Laden and chatter about an upcoming attack, but he did nothing. Instead of using popular support to build up the economy and build international support against terrorism, he (along with Rumsfeld and Cheney) used the attacks to justify starting wars, which became a drag on the economy and led to the worst downturn since the 1920’s. Warmongers usually have only short-term goals (usually to make a buck for themselves and friends, screw the country).