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Why I aM pRO-LIFE

Why I aM pRO-LIFE

I recently wrote that I thought the Texas law limiting abortion-on-demand as a good thing.  It was not everything, but a good move in my view.  For sure, I would like to see all unnecessary abortions outlawed.  I would make exception for the physical health of the mother, incest and rape.  I thought in view of my commentary on the Texas law, I should more fully explain why I am pro-life.  And the best way I can do that is to re-post a previous commentary.  So here it is.

ABORTION IS NOT A WOMAN’S HEALTHCARE ISSUE

The Trump administration has rescinded the Obama administration’s authorization of government-funded abortion through the Affordable Care Act (ACA) as well as the provisions that required providing abortion services regardless of faith-based opposition – most notably the strong religious objections within the Catholic and Muslim communities.  

I am pro-life, but I have not always been.  As a college student of the 1960s, I embraced a pro-abortion opinion mostly based on the progressive views of my professors and peers.  I changed my belief based on extensive research and compelling logic.  I did not arrive at my pro-life views through religion.  In fact, I would have to improve my religious dedication a lot just to rise to the level of a bad Catholic – the religion of my upbringing.  Because of the emotional component of this issue, I am offering a warning at top of this commentary.

(WARNING:  The photo below shows the result of a legal abortion – albeit a late term abortion.  I will undoubtedly anger the abortion-on-demand crowd and even make more sensitive readers a bit queasy.  Seeing what an abortion looks like is essential to understanding the full ramification of the procedure on the unborn. It is not akin to removing a tumor as the advocates imply.)

Abortion is not a healthcare issue unless you are focusing on the health and welfare of the unborn child.  It is not a religious issue, although religions may express theological beliefs on the subject.  Rather, it is about the definition of a human being and the role of a moral and just society in protecting human life.  It is our nature as a species to protect our progeny.  

Our laws are clear and consistent in their opposition to killing other humans – whether by murder or gross negligence.  There are only three currently legal exceptions to our laws against homicide; self-defense, individually or collectively in war; legal executions, the morality of which is also subject to justifiable controversy; and abortion. 

Since we, as a moral and lawful society, oppose the killing of fellow human beings, the existential question is whether the life in the womb is human and thereby protectable by a moral and just society.  We have scientific definition of when a fertilized egg becomes a zygote and then a fetus. While the entire abortion debate depends on establishing precisely when the unborn becomes human, we have no such scientific marker.  In fact, that determination varies by political and scientific opinion. This was the key question that led to my own conversion to pro-life.

Having posed the question on hundreds of occasions to abortion advocates, I have yet to hear an answer.  In many cases, they avoid the question by cutting off further dialogue.  

We know that, at some point in the evolution of the fertilized egg, we confer all the inalienable rights associated with humanness.  We know it happens before physical birth because we disallow abortions in the final days of gestation.  We also have convicted people for murder for killing a child yet in the womb. So, when does that happen?  

One arbitrary test has been viability outside the womb.  Modern technology has moved that back by many months.  Another has been the detection of brain waves and the feeling of pain.  Those, too, have been pushed back by medical discovery.  And in both cases, there is no determinable date.  The determination of when the fetus is sufficiently human to be spared termination is arbitrary and political.  

Consequently, the life or death of a human being is not based on empirical knowledge but capricious public opinion and the legislative process.  There is no date in the process at which there is a fundamental or exceptional day-to-day change in the fetus.  Each day represents only an imperceptible difference in maturation.  An argument for humanness on one day can be as effectively proffered the previous day.   In our rule of law, we say it is better to let a criminal go free than to convict an innocent person.  With abortion, we reverse that bias.  We err on the side of death.

The only truly exceptional event is conception.  It is at that time that the unique individual human DNA is in place.  Though unrecognizable, those first few cells contain all that is human – hair and eye color, skin tone, tallness and even diseases.  

Once conceived, it is the natural biological mandate and responsibility of the mother to carry, nurture and protect that evolving human.  That process begins automatically in nature as the mother’s own body supplies all the essentials of life.  It is also by instinct that mothers take precautions to defend her offspring from external dangers.  Mothers whose behavior, such as drug and excessive alcohol use, harms their offspring can be and have been criminally prosecuted.  

Abortion reverses that reality, too.  Looking at the huge number of abortions Alveda King, niece of Reverend Martin Luther King, has frequently said of the disproportionate (and some say, genocidal) abortions of black babies, “The most dangerous place for an African American is in the womb.”  The same can be said for all ethnicities.   For those who believe in the humanness of the fetus, the millions of abortions represent an infanticidal holocaust.

Another consideration in dealing with abortions is the rights of mothers and fathers.  It is said that it is a woman’s right to determine matters dealing with her body – but it is not her body that is in question.  A fetus is not standard equipment.  It represents a unique being created by TWO people.  

The erroneous contention that the fetus is an intrinsic part of the woman’s body leads to the secondary assumption that the man has no interest, responsibility or rights despite the fact that the fetus is biologically half his creation.  If that same man and woman were to have invented a new type of toothbrush, they would, by law, have equal rights of ownership.  This longstanding legal standard does not apply in the creation of something much more fundamental than a new toothbrush.

Consider this.  If a woman requested that a surgeon remove her kidney based solely on her desire, it would be unethical and arguably illegal for the doctor to perform such an operation even though there is no controversy over the exclusive ownership of that kidney.  In the case of the mutually created fetus, the father has no role in deciding if his child lives or dies but is held to be responsible financially and otherwise if the child is allowed to survive.

For most pro-life people, there are three basic exceptions to a ban on abortions.  They are where the life of the mother is at stake, an incestuous pregnancy and in cases of rape.  These are not political exemptions or arbitrary but are morally founded.  When given a clear choice between the life of the mother and the unborn, it is reasonable to favor the life of the mother as the more important life – a Sophie’s Choice to be sure.  This is based on the argument that the mother has greater importance as a spouse, mother of other children and established contributor to society.

Abortions in the case of incest are based on the health of the species.  While one cannot make a judgment on each individual case, it is well known that inbreeding is biologically destructive.  The last case for abortion is actually more difficult to defend, but it is reasonable to believe that birthing a child who was the product of a violent and disturbing act poses a serious psychological risk to the mother.  There are, of course, people within the pro-life community who have differing opinions on these exemptions.

If one is to look at abortion purely as a healthcare issue for the mother, the only legitimate issue may be the health consequences associated with abortions.  There are credible studies that abortions pose long-term risks, including higher rates of cancer and suicides.

Finally, there is the reality of the abortion, itself.

I recall an episode of the television show Friends in which the David Schwimmer character just became a father.  He said in amazement, “One minute it’s a blob of flesh and the next minute it’s a child.”  That is the political false narrative, not the biological reality.  The photo at the bottom of this commentary is what an aborted unborn looks like.

Many aborted children have faces, arms, legs, and all those little inner organs that Planned Parenthood sells on the medical market.  They also feel pain.  In many ways, an abortion is one of the most brutal and violent acts that can be inflicted on a human being.  The claims that fetal tissue, stem cells and the various body parts are beneficial to medical research has no more moral validity than that same claimed “benefits” of the Nazi’s human medical experiments.

Granted that in the earliest stages those features which we would normally describe as “cute” are not yet in place, but the all-important DNA is.  Basing humanness on what the human looks like in the womb is disturbingly similar to the genocidal eugenic and phrenological pseudosciences that progressives popularized a century ago – basing the quality of humanness on appearances rather than biological reality.

The aforementioned arguments against abortion, however, do not justify the condemnation of those who believe otherwise.  While a pro-life belief is a moral fundamental, it is a mistake to demonize those who believe in abortion as a social tool.  Those beliefs and believers should not be looked upon as evil, and calling out pro-abortion advocates as murderers is a bridge too far.  It is an unsettled morality in our society.  It is one thing to believe someone is mistaken, but quite another to accuse them of being evil.  In many ways, it is like the issue of slavery.  

There was a time in America, that slavery was widely considered to be morally acceptable.  It took generations of enlightenment to change that culture.  Most of those who accepted slavery as a reality were not evil as much as misguided.  Some of the noblest people in the late 1700s were slave owners as well.  As with slavery, we have seen the popularity of abortion diminish.  We have seen social pressure and laws limit the use of abortion.  That trend is likely to continue until we look upon the era of abortion as with national embarrassment and shame – as we do about slavery and our treatment of Native Americans.  As America always does, we will succeed in restoring our moral underpinning and abortion will be extremely rare and based solely on medical reality.

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About The Author

Larry Horist

So,there‘tis… The opinions, perspectives and analyses of Larry Horist Larry Horist is a businessman, conservative writer and political strategist with an extensive background in economics and public policy. Clients of his consulting firm have included such conservative icons as Steve Forbes and Milton Friedman. He has served as a consultant to the Nixon White House and travelled the country as a spokesman for President Reagan’s economic reforms. He has testified as an expert witness before numerous legislative bodies, including the U. S. Congress. Horist has lectured and taught courses at numerous colleges and universities, including Harvard, Northwestern, DePaul universities, Hope College and his alma mater, Knox College. He has been a guest on hundreds of public affairs talk shows, and hosted his own program, “Chicago In Sight,” on WIND radio. Horist was a one-time candidate for mayor of Chicago and served as Executive Director of the City Club of Chicago, where he led a successful two-year campaign to save the historic Chicago Theatre from the wrecking ball. An award-winning debater, his insightful and sometimes controversial commentaries appear frequently on the editorial pages of newspapers across the nation. He is praised by readers for his style, substance and sense of humor. According to one reader, Horist is the “new Charles Krauthammer.” He is actively semi-retired in Boca Raton, Florida where he devotes his time to writing. So, there ‘tis is Horist’s signature sign off.

32 Comments

  1. Florida Phil

    I have absolutely no religious dog in the fight so to speak so I don’t reject abortion because of that. But, having said that, tearing apart an infant to spare some careless women from raising a child is unthinkable. If carrying the infant to birth is dangerous to the mother or the infant, than abortion might be the only right thing to do, but only when no other option exists. Any other reason is simply an excuse to relieve the mother of her obligation.

    Reply
  2. Andrew

    So you are pro slavery? A woman’s body belongs to the state, not to herself? Once a woman becomes pregnant, they are now owned by the state? How is that any different than slavery? Where people are property?

    Reply
    • Jerry bailey

      She’s not allowed to murder her kids after they are born. Neither am I

      Reply
  3. Mike

    Larry, The title of your article is a lie, so I felt compelled to respond. Anyone who has read your screeds knows you are not pro life, but to be accurate, I am sure you are most definitely anti-abortion. I am not sure that I have ever met a conservative who was pro-life, though many describe themselves in that manner. In order to be pro-life, one needs to have concerns about living conditions for people who have actually been born. That means people need to be able to support themselves with a living wage, have access to adequate healthcare, not have food insecurity and have a roof over their heads. Each of those requirements is reasonable in a first world country such as we live in. You believe in none of those, because in order for everyone to have access to those would require government expenditures, in essence, you fail to put your money where your mouth is. Your position on abortion comes from someone of privilege, of reasonable intelligence (though many of your writings fail to indicate that), who has had an adequate income throughout his life so that he can retire to the tennis courts in Florida. Unfortunately, that is not the case of every US citizen. Some are not as intelligent, some have other mental issues that prevent them from living full and productive lives. The bottom line is, even with abortion legal, there are many children that are born into situations where they are unloved, unwanted, and have experiences as youth that could only be described as hellish, with food insecurity, and inadequate health care. By further restricting abortion, these situations are bound to increase. Being of a certain age, you should also be well aware that abortions didn’t start with the passage of Roe V Wade, they have always occurred, but they were done on the black market, and as they were unregulated, they were frequently unsafe. The Texas bill that is garnering all the current attention is based on the lie that a fetal heartbeat can be detected at 6 weeks-at that time the embryo is the size of a pea, there is no way that a heartbeat can be detected that early, the heart is far from developed and the embryo is getting it’s blood supply from it’s mother, and I would severely question that they can feel pain. So there tis, Men have no right to regulate what a Woman does unless they are willing to step up and pay for the consequences… (and here we all thought Republicans were for the government staying out of people’s lives….)

    Reply
    • Marsha wills

      Protecting life is the republicans business. So go ahead and start preaching. But life begins at conception. But you liberals have no value on life unless it’s a black guy trying to kill the police.

      Reply
      • Ben

        Marsha,
        If life begins at conception, why haven’t republicans made laws that require child support payments starting at conception? Why can’t I claim a fetus on my tax returns? Put your money where your mouth is. You want women to be forced to birth a baby, force the man to contribute to the burden.

        Reply
  4. Ben

    On a serious note,
    I am wondering how you reconcile your pro life stance with your pro war beliefs you keep writing about?

    The way I see it, it’s not my say in how or what a woman does with her body. We don’t legislate morality. It never works. Drugs, alcohol, dress, masks… people will find a way to do what they want. At least with egal abortions, we can make sure women are given safe medical procedures.
    On a separate note, the best way to prevent abortions is early and accurate sex Ed and low or no cost birth control. Other countries have proven this is an effective way to deal with a touchy subject.

    Reply
  5. frank stetson

    Hard to believe you would willingly walk into this one Larry. Like it or not, the law of the land exists and we should just back off. This Texas POS law is un-American.

    I find the names we apply to be insidious spins. Who the hell isn’t pro-life? Who is pro-death? Who is anti-life? Only after you define it as something else than the words mean is when it gets interesting. Using your definition, how dare you claim to be pro-life. Besides forcing someone to have a baby they don’t want, what the fuck will you ever do for that child that is pro-life? Nothing. You just want to “save the baby” by forcing the mother into nine months of unwanted pregnancy, followed by disposing of a baby they don’t want in the first place. Where’s the pro-life for that kid?

    By that token, who isn’t pro-choice. I mean it’s a term very applicable to the anti-vaxers desire to be able to choose.

    But you, my friend, are anti-abortion, face up to it. You said: “I thought the Texas law limiting abortion-on-demand as a good thing.” That means good things include:
    – Rape victims forced to have babies by the State and it’s hired vigilantes.
    – Incest victims forced to have babies by the State and it’s hired vigilantes.
    – Raped Incest victims forced to have babies, State, vigilantes again.
    – Citizens paid rewards or bounties by the State becoming State Agents chartered to police people having sex with unintended consequences.
    – If we can incentivize citizens with bounties for this “crime,” where does this end?
    – What else will we incentivize our neighbors to spy upon for the State next.
    – Will bounty businesses capitalize on this new State industry opportunity?

    And then you say: “It was not everything, but a good move in my view.” You want more? My friend, it’s a pretty weak tea to moderate your support by saying: “but I don’t like rape and incest….” Good try. Either in the boat or out. How much nose do you have to hold to put up with the stink you seem to be willing to put up with to win your way to force people to term? “You know, except for that rape and incest part, it’s a pretty spiffy law. You just gotta break some eggs to have an omelet….” Come on Larry, that’s too much.

    This bogus, cruel, unusual punishment, POS law takes our tax dollars to incentivize citizens to do the State’s policing. It’s an around the barn form of super-funding the police from another taxpayer fund. It’s a terrible precedent with no end in sight where it might be applied. Think vaccine mandates are bad? What will you feel about them when citizens track down fellow citizens not complying. And then get money for doing so. There’s potentially no end to this form of law.

    I can argue each of your points, but why? I will do just one. You say: “The only truly exceptional event is conception” and we get where you are going. If you believe in an all-knowing God then perhaps each life begins well before pregnancy. I mean, it was clear to God that Adam and Eve would create Cain, Abel and Seth well before Adam and Eve existed. Just a little predetermination and life starts before conception. Before the wink of the eye.

    It doesn’t matter Larry. This is a woman’s personal choice, more power to her IF she gets the guy to participate in the process, and in the decision, but still Larry — your thoughts, your conclusions, don’t matter didley. It is her right so just leave it alone.

    Or if you want to be pro-life, then actually do something for these lives rather than just forcing women to have babies they don’t want for, frankly, whatever reason they don’t want to. Work to be pro-life and quit being just anti-abortion. Work to be pro-life for longer than just the first ten seconds outside the womb. Work to convince people to have all babies but providing help, support, and guidance instead of jack-booted thugs going through our trash cans looking for EPT’s to be able to turn victims over to the police state of forced term pregnancies.

    Frankly Larry, chances are this law changes absolutely nothing for the rich, they will have no problem taking a flight out of State, and causes the poor to make dangerous choices to get an unsafe abortion or have slews of rape babies, incest babies, babies without fathers, babies without mothers, and more. There is nothing but tragedy here.

    Reply
    • Mary ellen

      If the bitch wants to #$*& she should be on birth control. It’s her responsibility if she wants to live like a slut.

      Reply
  6. Lillian Reheusser

    Safe vs unsafe abortions? All abortions are unsafe for at least one party. Laws or no laws abortion will only cease to occur when the hearts and minds of the people are changed for the better. If the child is unwanted there are many options available besides killing the child. Abortion is a horrific and selfish act. Many girls and women are coerced into this act but there is now help out there. Giving birth to that child frees many a woman from a life filled with guilt and remorse. I know. I speak from experience.

    Reply
    • Ben

      Lillian,
      Or we could start an early and comprehensive sex Ed program and make all types of birth control available at low or no cost to anyone that wants it.
      It has been proven in other Countries to dramatically reduce abortions.
      Being pro birth is just lip service.

      Reply
  7. Joseph S. Bruder

    Well, Larry, nothing like a “red meat” photo for your loyal readership… So, where did the photo come from? Any details, besides “late term”? From the picture, the fetus (not a baby!) looks to be about 28 weeks, just barely at the point where it can live outside the mother’s body (and no, they have not changed the viability date by months – any baby born more than 3 weeks early is considered a “preemie” and heroic efforts are required to save its life). Do you know if this fetus was dead and had to be aborted because of that? Or was the mother’s life in danger? Maybe the fetus was deformed in some manner and would not have survived? No, you attached the photo to your article for shock value only – the lowest form of journalism. Like a dog to a bone, Republicans are drawn to the pro-life issue because Reagan made it part of his southern strategy, and convinced millions of people that it’s a problem.

    Since your belief is probably Bible-based, the only mention of abortion in the Bible, as far as I know, is in Numbers, where a woman that has sex outside of marriage is told to go to the priest who will give her a potion (“cursed water”) to cause her to miscarry. But there are also rather violent descriptions of what to do for not believing in the correct god, such as killing the women and children, and even (Hosea) “women with child shall be ripped up”. You’d think that an all-knowing God would have been aware of the abortion issue coming down the road at a later date, and would have included a commandment “Thou shall not abort an unborn fetus”.

    How many women have died because of “coat hanger” abortions? Desperate women take desparate measures. What are their lives worth?

    But since you’re now very publicly pro-life, then you must agree with Democrats’ inclusion of a monthly subsidy to families with children? And of course, you believe that all schools should offer free meals for all children – you want to keep those kids alive and healthy. And government-mandated special-needs classes for disabled or gifted children. And free medical care for everyone, since the better the health care, the better their lives will be. Oh, and don’t forget free dental care either. And as I mentioned before, heroic efforts are required to save a baby more than a few weeks premature, so profit-motivated insurance companies would not be willing to pay for that – which means that you must support a switch to government provided health care. And it’s usually the more religious folks that don’t believe in birth control – are you going to come out for free government-supplied birth control too?

    To save the lives of millions of children, of course they all need to be vaccinated too. And since COVID typically kills about 2% of the people who catch it, then you would certainly approve of mandatory vaccinations so that nobody needlessly die of COVID.

    And since you’re going to force women to be baby machines, then they need to be compensated. Any single woman with a baby should get free room and board, a salary, and a guaranteed income until the baby is of legal age. And the child should get a free education up to and including college – otherwise the child’s life is just wasted. And how many children have you adopted? Not all the mothers pumping out babies are capable of raising them… are you ready to take a few into your home?

    Let’s not forget the death penalty – I suppose you believe it should be abolished since you’re a pro-life kind of guy. And being pro-life takes war off the table, YAY! At the very least, you’d stop advocating that the US meddle in the affairs of other countries, and stop taking sides and supplying arms to combatants. Let’s put the military-industrial complex out of business! But there are still refugees – typically Republicans hate refugees, but since you’re publicly stating your pro-life position, you can start advocating for saving the lives of refugees from poor or war-torn countries.

    Then there’s all the guns in the hands of irresponsible people – 15,000 homicides and 25,000 thousand suicides per year – surely you believe that we need to take away all those guns and save up to 40,000 lives per year? And police reform – 600 people were shot by police so far this year – police need to be better trained in non-violent escalation, and without all the guns on the street (per your pro-life beliefs) that should be a lot easier. Better government-sponsored mental health services could help with the suicides and reduce some of the load on police too.

    I guess now you’ll stop hating people from the LGBT community too… They’re people, just like everyone else, right? If you’re going to support life for an unborn fetus, you’ll need to support the lives of the ones already born, no matter how different they might be…

    Animals are alive, too… Millions of animals are dying because of public environmental policies – overhunting, overgrazing, destruction of natural habitats and fire and other natural disasters, and even shifting of natural habitats because . If you want to save the animals, and all that life, you need to also support that planet – with man-made global warming, it may become uninhabitable for ALL life, except for maybe the stray cockroaches.

    So, you want to call yourself pro-life – prove it! Publicly state your positions on all the other pro-life issues. One topic at a time, and you even get paid to write the columns. I’m looking forward to your new change of heart, now that you’re a Progressive Republican.

    Reply
    • ROBERT kincaid

      Spoken like a true communist

      Reply
    • larry Horist

      You just cannot stop lying. I wrote in my commentary specifically that my pro-life belief is NOT religious based. Other than that, I have no reason to respond to your addle-brained screeds. I sincerely hope that his latest post — and several others — are the result of intoxication for your sake.

      Reply
      • Joseph S. Bruder

        Oh, Larry… you already let it slip that you’re a Catholic boy… I know those nuns, they beat that Bible stuff into you at a young age. Whether you like it or not, or even believe it or not, your beliefs are religion-based.

        Boy, it sure is roomy living rent-free inside your head… reminds me of the old Munster mansion, dusty, cobwebs, kind of empty… Oh, look, there’s Grandpa hanging over in the corner… no, whoops, that Rudi Ghouliani… What’s Uncle Fester doing here? That’s the wrong TV show… Oh, that’s Trump, after he goes to prison and gets his head shaved…

        I’m still looking forward to your next pro-life essays… what will it be? Anti-war? Anti-guns? Pro-refugees?

        Reply
  8. frank stetson

    Lillian, IMO, you are right and you are wrong. A life filled with guilt and remorse? That’s your experience. Not others. Perhaps not even a significant percentage. You don’t know. The many options you talk about are not always acceptable, doable, or even possible. Not only that, but the guilt and remorse may even be worse for people coming to term and giving up the result. And you do note that the Texas POS law we are talking about, this pro-life marvel, adds absolutely NOTHING for the “help out there.” There is no “now” there is help out there. Nothing Texas has done adds any help. Just punishment. Just turning neighbor against neighbor. Nada, just punishment for not coming to term. Punishment for rape mothers. Punishment for incest mothers. Being hunted and tracked down by you neighbors to be forced to come to term.

    People have been making this decision since the dawn of our society. This law does not change that. It just punishes some who make the legal decision that others don’t like. It takes and end run around the law of the land because they can’t change the law of the land. Even IF , as Lillian notes, IF the law allows “a horrific and selfish act,” the Texas law does not add any enhancement to what Lillian feels is the answer, the “help out there,” and that’s the real problem here. A law that promotes cruel and unusual punishment for what is currently considered a legal act by the Supreme Court of the US.

    I agree Lillian, a terrible act. I also agree with you that the “help out there” is a fix. But the Texas law does nothing for the fix. It adds no help to the decision. No alternative. No support. The Texas Law is an abortion itself. An abortion of our rule of law that is. So, I think we agree and disagree a bit Lillian. Nice post. Can’t refute your opinion.

    Reply
    • Dan Tyree

      Facts. Abortion is murder. People who support it are worse than Hitler

      Reply
      • Joseph S. Bruder

        People who needlessly spread disease and infect others because of not getting vaccinated are murderers. There are roughly 60,000 abortions per year. In a year and a half, 680,000 people have died from COVID, most because Trump discouraged masks and vaccinations. That makes Trump worse than Hitler, but you and anyone else who won’t wear a mask or get vaccinated are complicit (not to mention suicidal). There is quick, safe, free way to keep from getting COVID, and you won’t get it. There are 600+ deaths every day because stupid people won’t get vaccinated, and it puts everyone else at risk too, including lots of children too young to get vaccinated.

        You’re assuming that a fetus is a person. Not everyone believes that, and even the Bible begs to differ. 90% of abortions occur before the 12th week (when the fetus is 1/2 ounce, about the size of a lime), and 98% before the fetus is 16 weeks (3.5 ounces, size of an apple). Coordinated brain activity doesn’t occur until week 24-25. Until then, you could cut your hand off and it would have as much chance of developing into a baby as a fetus of that gestation outside of the womb.

        And read all the rest of it… if you are really pro-life, what about all the other things you should be supporting? Get rid of guns, cut up to 40,000 deaths per year. Do you support the death penalty? That’s the state killing people. How many people die in wars that the US supports? How many weapons is the US selling to various armies around the world, sometimes on both sides of the conflicts? Do you support minimum wages? People who are desperate are more likely to commit robberies. What about refugees? They are facing poverty or death in war-torn countries.

        Face the real fact – you’re a fucking hypocrite. You snipe at people who want to make the world better and safer for everyone, but in the end you only care about yourself. From your statements on this website, I’m sure you’d happily kill someone who entered your home who was hungry and desperate and couldn’t earn enough working minimum wage jobs to feed his family. I’m guessing you wouldn’t even wait if he came onto your property and looked at you cross-eyed. And if he was black and just lost, you’d shoot him for daring to drive up your driveway.

        Reply
        • larry Horist

          Bruder … you have a very active imagination Why don’t you take up writing fiction. Oh … you already have. Get a grip, guy.

          Reply
          • Joseph S. Bruder

            Larry, your imagination is locked in the 1960’s, you have no capacity for rational thought, and should ACTIVELY retire. Your only comeback is to set up a strawman, nitpick on a word or two, call people a liar, and in your own mind think you’ve won the argument. You don’t discuss anything logically, you just try to shut people down and shout over them. You always start your columns by claiming the moral high ground, then the rest of your arguments betray you. You can’t even convince most of the people that are supposedly on your side. That’s why I’m in your head – you know I’m right and don’t have any idea how to argue against me.

            The entire Republican Party has devolved to a bunch of conspiracy theorists who don’t know fantasy from reality. They look at Trump and just say “nothing bad happened, he was perfect” because that’s what he wants you to say, and you’re all fucking scared of him.

        • Dan Tyree

          Hey dickhead. I wear my mask in public. And it’s interesting that the health care people who work daily with Covid doesn’t as a majority recommend the vaccine. I practice cleanliness and take care of myself I know that Covid is here and it’s real. I’ve known people personally that got it and some of them died. My 87 year old friend and music buddy has it. So don’t talk shit that you don’t know. You don’t know anything about my life except that I’m conservative. And yes, life begins at conception. But believe what you want. If I were a doctor and a woman came to me seeking an abortion I would be kind and professional and refer her to another doctor. The health care people are seeing a lot of bad reactions to the so called vaccine. So stfu with the bullying. I’ll make my own decisions. And no, I haven’t ruled vaccination out completely. I’m waiting on improvements. You assume too much not knowing anything about me or even what part of the country that I live in. You trolls are pissed off because we see retard joe for what he is. A dumbass!! And no, I wouldn’t happily kill someone. I would have to reasonably believe that he was a mortal threat. And I’ve fed hungry people that I didn’t even know. I have a good heart but if someone wants something they need to ask and not make me feel threatened. And my state doesn’t allow us to shoot people just for trespassing. They have to be a reason to reasonably believe that myself or others are in danger of death or serious bodily harm. I have blacks show up here sometimes, like workers and delivery men. But they don’t come on my 20 acres threatening to burn my home and kill my family like the thugs did to those good people in St. Louis. You are a bigoted bastard with a poor impression of the real world. And I also know that if, God forbid, I shoot someone I would be required to explain and justify it. You probably don’t even believe in legal self defense. So go take your meds and enjoy being a liberal fool. You people are a disgrace. The left are the ones stirring up racial shit.

          Reply
          • Dan Tyree

            Joseph I left out the death penalty. Hell yeah I believe in it. And about desperate people committing robberies, I’ve been down and out and I didn’t rob anyone. And people being victimized and robbed also get desperate. I guess desperation causes crack heads to murder harmless people. But I might take a lot of killing and will go down shooting, swinging or whatever. I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. My favorite tee shirt reads,”rather than have the cops explain how I died I would rather explain in court why I shot the bastard “

          • Joseph S. Bruder

            Aww, Danny boy, are you feeling bullied? The guy who likes to talk about gay sex and shit; calls people names; says racist, supremacist, homophobic, misogynistic and just plain crude stuff all the time? Is there a group of people out there you haven’t insulted? Am I living in your head too?

            I guess it’s true what they say – the worst bullies are the biggest cowards… stand up to them and they turn and run home crying for mama…

  9. frank stetson

    Three on a match from our resident name caller of the uninventive kind.

    Lie number 1: “the health care people who work daily with Covid doesn’t as a majority recommend the vaccine.”

    Lie number 2: “health care people are seeing a lot of bad reactions to the so called vaccine.”

    Lie number 3: “The left are the ones stirring up racial shit.”

    Lie number 4: All of this spew has very little to do with Larry’s discussion about abortion by our chief topic changer, name caller, and liar-in-chief.

    Reply
  10. Ben

    Larry,
    As you once told me, and I’m paraphrasing here… “you’re awfully generous with other peoples bodies”.
    Aside from bodily autonomy, this is a losing strategy for Republicans.

    Reply
  11. fr

    Aw Danny boy,
    The bullies, the bullies are calling….
    From post to post and down the threads inside,
    The summer’s gone, and all the roses falling,
    It’s you, it’s you must go and I must bide.

    But come ye back when summer’s in the meadow,
    Or when the valley’s hushed and white with snow,
    It’s I’ll be here in sunshine or in shadow.
    (thank you Jane Ross for finding the song, Danny Boy)

    Poor, poor, poor picked-upon Danny.
    He has his truth, his truth alone.
    Because no one else believes him.
    Can’t support what he owns.
    Oh, Danny Boy, oh Danny Boy, we love you so!
    (thank you Danny for living beyond your potential)

    Reply
    • Dan Tyree

      No I don’t feel bullied. But your kind would bully people if you could. And some put up with it. You four idiots should arrange to get together for a circle jerk. You could draw straws to choose a pivot man. And re the so-called lies that I allegedly told. It’s all true. So give up on the indoctrination. I just say what most people think, including the leftist, but are too chicken shit to say it.

      Reply
      • Joseph S. Bruder

        hahahahahaha! Good one, Frank!

        Reply
        • larry Horist

          I think you are referring to fr not Frank. Bruder, you have some weird imagination. No … you do not live in my head. My question would be … how much time do YOU spend in your head? You puff yourself up by saying that I cannot debate you. If you want to believe that to make yourself feel important … go for it. I do not engage in any prolonged dialogue with you any more for a couple of reasons. Much of what your write is childish insults which I give the value they deserve. As I told you in the past, I will point out your outright lies and pejorative misstatements — and even they are getting to frequent to address. Since you are on emotional brain lock, any dialogue between us is useless. And I feel no need to respond to all your eclectic ranting. I think your writings, alone, are self-refutation. I prefer to let them hang out there for all to see and consider. if there is any validity to one person metaphorically living in another persons head, you may be projecting. I find it very easy to disregard most of your many. many posts, while you seem compulsively obsessed with every word I say. If I am in your head … please evict me.

          Reply
  12. frank stetson

    I have never seen someone so fascinated by sex between males, even to be able to call the different positions during certain sex acts he seems to know all too well.

    Of course, he probably makes up this stuff too, just like any discussion points he brings up.

    Where’s his proof for Kamala Harris sleeping her way to the top?
    His claim to truth is we can’t disprove it, so it must be true.
    His claim to truth is he has friends who believe.
    His claim to truth is “no, no, it’s not me, it’s you…..”

    The only thing he seems to get spot on is how to have sex with other men. He can’t even come up with creative name calling, just old tired boring stuff like “chicken shit.” How lame. How tame. Get some hot sauce with that taco, man. What’s next, can’t wait. Maybe something using “commiecrat,” that’s always a nice trip back to the 50’s.

    Going to Washington this weekend to support your Capitol Tourists? Got your White Lives Matter T-shirts? Your Proud Boys secret handshake? Your MAGA megaphones? A few zip ties and bear spray? Name calling allowed!!! I sense small crowds, low violence, and really low caliber speakers. You can do you pro-life thing there, maybe hand out some lists of Texans that need spying upon. Tell some stories how you forced a poor Texan to hitch hike to Oklahoma and back because you mandated her to have a incestual rape baby. Yippeee, gonna be a fine show!

    Reply
    • Dan Tyree

      No I want be going to Washington. And I don’t know any members of proud boys. I’m just a conservative American that believes that you idiots are fucking the country up. But I do have some tee shirts that I get positive comments on. And if people travel to Washington I hope that there is no violence. If the antifa thugs show up, as they will, they will start the shit. They should never be allowed to be near any Trump rallies or meetings of conservative people. We are the true Americans. You people are the scum of the earth. As for being a proud boy, I’m proud of my fellow Americans that stand up to you assholes

      Reply

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