When will killing Americans begin bother Biden?
In a recent attack on a military barracks in Jordan, three American soldiers were killed, and dozens more injured as they slept. Many of the injuries were severe and may still lead to additional deaths. Many of the injuries were in the form of traumatic brain injuries. We know who fired those weapons – and we know who provided them.
This was not a shocking event because it was not unanticipated. It was inevitable. It was not a first-time event. These terrorists have attacked American military installations more than 100 times in the past few months with the intention and possibility of killing American soldiers. The tragically succeeded this time. These are not even the first Americans that have been killed by the recent increased terrorist activity. At least 33 Americans were murdered on October 7.
Once again Biden has promised to respond without specifics. Based on past history of Biden’s responses – from sanctions to military action — we have every reason to be concerned that it will AGAIN be too little/too late.
The purpose of response is to have an impact – to degrade the enemy and STOP belligerent actions. Not a single response Biden has made to aggression against the United States or allies has been effective. We need to keep in mind that NOT A SINGLE RESPONSE BIDEN HAS MADE TO THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRIANE … THE HAMAS ATTACK ON ISRAEL …OR THE MULTIPLE ATTACKS ON AMERICANS AND AMERICAN ASSESTS … HAS STOPPED ANYTHING. Not the tough talk … the threats … the sanctions … the diplomacy … providing military equipment … the promise of an Iran nuclear deal … billion-dollar bribes … or “measured” military action. It has not even slowed down the aggressive behavior of our adversaries. In most cases, their actions have been escalating. Biden’s policies have utterly failed.
National Security advisor John Kirby appeared at a White House briefing to deal with this and other matters. He had some interesting things to say – mostly what Biden would NOT do as opposed to what he WOULD DO.
According to Kirby, the administration does not want a war with Iran – even as he conceded that Iran is behind the attacks. The Defense Department reiterated the administration’s assurance to the Iranian Supreme Leader that the United States does not seek war with Iran even though the DOJ said that Iran’s “fingerprints” are on the attack that killed the American soldiers.
That essentially ends any accountability from Biden for Iran’s role in promoting and supporting terrorism throughout the region – and the specific attack that killed and injured American soldiers. Kirby added that the White House does not want to even “escalate” the situation. But the situation has escalated dramatically. The only question is whether the United States will respond dramatically and effectively … or just with another of those “measured” responses. Unless the response is against Iran, will be meaningless.
The term Kirby used to assure the American people was that the Biden administration would “respond appropriately.” That is diplomatic weasel language that could mean anything – or nothing. We have heard that term used in the past and the only thing we know for sure is that the responses were not effective – just “appropriate.”
In another example of political double-talk, Kirby said that past U.S. action had “degraded” the Houthis ability to respond – but they responded anyway. Apparently “degrade” in Washington-ese does not mean to end the Houthis’ ability to continue to attack – to escalate.
The one thing that should be very clear by now is that these “appropriate” (weak) responses are not working – and will not work. As long as Biden policies have no impact on Iran, nothing will change. It does not have to be a full-scaled war, but there must be an attack on Iranian financial and military assets. This could mean seizing financial assets … greater sanctions … and military strikes on military installations and the munitions industry providing the weapons.
That does not necessarily mean that such actions will kick off a regional war – and certainly not a world war. However, we cannot allow that possibility to deter the United States – and others – from taking the issue of state-sponsored terrorism right to the source. We have to take whatever “effective” action is necessary.
The Neville Chamberlains of the world argue that it is not Iran attacking Israel or the United States. It is merely the Houthis … or Hamas … or Hezbollah … or al Qaeda … or ISIS … or the Taliban. But there is a common denominator — Iran. These terrorist groups are not “allies” or Iran, they are “surrogates.” To ignore that reality is like saying that the person who hires a killer to knock off a spouse should not be held accountable because they did not pull the trigger.
At the time of this writing, Biden has not offered any specifics about the nature or timing of his response – and of course, no response, yet. The only words from Biden’s lips are that there will be an appropriate response after they “study” the situation.
Perhaps the pressure of the presidential campaign – and the fact that there are three families grieving the loss of a loved one – and others dealing with crippling injuries — will motivate Biden to a more “effective” response. But if Iran gets a pass, there can be no “effective” response. And while Biden is looking for a “measured” response, there are three American heroes being measured for their burial uniforms. This might not have happened if Biden had responded “inappropriately” (meaning effectively) in the past. So, there ‘tis.
He’s too stupid to be bothered with what really matters. He’s focused on filling up the country with illegals and gun grabbing. And many other things that is killing the country
I dunno. I could of sworn those were US bombs dropping on GAZA.
So far, here’s the bidding
1. Houti’s attack ships with Israeli ties in the Gulf
2. US and Britain hit 36 Houti hotspots in Yemen in 13 locations
3. Houtis begin to target US and UK ships too, fire one missile, we destroyed, the next day and then I think we hit a dozen sites in Yemen
4. Three US soldiers die, over 40 injured in drone attack in Jordan from terrorists supported by Iraq
5. US and UK hit 85 targets in Iraq1 and Syria, we most certainly killed some folks.
I am sorry, Horist wants more?
Well Frank, I have read Larry’s article several times with the specific intent of determining what Larry means by “effective”. As you and I are both aware of from our previous life’s work, effectiveness can be a tricky thing to measure. It appears to me that one measure of effective that Larry has in mind is “target Iran”. Another measure seems to be “eliminate Iranian proxies like Houthis”. Both of these measures, if we were successful, may evoke a response from Iran such as more sophisticated missiles get shot to Israel. I see several tricky geo-political balances that must be struck correctly, or we could have more problems than we can handle. Israel will end up being the big loser, and many will die on both sides. I think this is what Biden is hoping to avoid. I do not see this as a bad thing. But GOPs see it as an opportunity to gather campaign talking points for which, if Biden listens to them, they will bear no responsibility and Biden will bear all responsibility. So as an Independent/unaffiliated moderate, I am in favor of Biden’s graduated approach for a limited time, and with firm measures in place where we can address Larry’s concern of effectiveness such as” 1) Missile attacks per week/ month, 2) Number of missiles shot at us and at shipping, 3) verifiable damage and casualties to the attacker, 4) Changes in behavior from the benchmarked poor behavior. I think if Biden could show a little more structure, purpose, and firm measures of effectiveness (which right now will be hard because its just beginning) it may calm the GOP critics. The one thing Biden knows for sure is that if he does accidentally start another war or draw us into a conflict deeper, the GOP will never let him forget it no matter how righteous it might have been. So a little while to tippy toe through the minefield may not be such a bad idea at this juncture in time. I think one thing Vietnam taught us was that it is much easier to escalate than de-escalate, much easier to charge than to withdraw. So errors on the side of caution until we better understand the dynamics at play and how the neighbors will react may not be such a bad thing. As you have said, we probably have already killed more than their attack killed of us including latent mortal injuries.
Tom … You are misrepresenting my meaning of “effective.” I mean the type of action that will end the aggression against American soldiers and assists.. In this latest round of “measured” or “symbolic” response, they claim we are hitting terrorists headquarters, ammo dumps and launch sites. So, why did we not hit them before they attacked the US more than 160 times. I think it is likely that had Biden launched an “effective” response initially, these young Americans would be alive today. And if we do not defeat the terrorist operation, there will be more Americans killed in the future. Are you and Frank okay with that? I am absolutely shocked at your and Frank’s assessment that as long as they did not kill as many Americans as we potentially killed terrorists, it is okay to restrain our response. You think of that as our side winning? Remember, THEY are the aggressor. Our mission should be to defeat .. not degrade. According to the Biden, Frank, Tom approach, we will be in a war of attrition for the foreseeable future with ongoing casualties. We did not defeat the Axis powers by degrading their ability to fight.. but by crushing it. In case, you have not noticed, the multinational regional war (including terrorists) that Biden says he wants to avoid is here and has been escalating since October 7. And we still have Biden playing Nero as the Ukraine War burns on. Why do you guys find defeating terrorism and other US aggressive adversaries so repulsive. You really so afraid that you will let America, Israel, Ukraine go done in defeat? There were folks like you in World War II, but thankfully they did not prevail. But they seem to have prevailed since — and you can see where that has led. Prolonged losing wars with too many Americans dying, Contrary to Frank’s snide remarks, my approach is based on saving lives. I know you did not mean it, but you sound like you are willing to lose a few American lives every now and then rather than defeat the enemy,
Frank Stetson … Bravo! You finally said something that applies to the real me. Yes … I want more. I want to defeat the forces of evil that are attacking us and our allies.
How’s that going for you Horist?
Did WWII defeat them?
Vietnam?
Afgahistan?
Iraq?
Africa?
Did Trump defeat the forces of evi;l?
Do you really believe you will destroy Iran?
What Larry does not realize is that terrorism is a concept, not a physical enemy. Terrorism is a concept used by those that do not think they have the resources to beat an established enemy on the battlefield. Terrorism will never end precisely because it is a concept. There will always be someone willing to deploy the concept.
Tom … That is utter nonsense. True, ideology poisons the minds, but terrorism is the actions of people … period. Our soldiers were not killed by words or beliefs … or concepts. They were killed by people with weapons provided by other people. If the Houthis were merely broadcasting concepts, ideas or ideology, there would be no drones attacking US personnel and assets. Some once said the best defense against a bad idea is a good idea. But bombs are not merely a concept. Even Chamberlain was not that ridiculous.
Once again Larry you have screwed up your reading of what I said. I said it is a concept. Yes people buy into using the concept and this is where it ends up with people with poisoned minds. But it all started by accepting the concept of terrorism in their mind. I did not say the Houthis were broadcasting concepts. I said they are using the terrorism concepts to assert their will by striking fear in a population, disturbing commerce, and seeding chaos using drones, missiles, and I believe they have some targeting help from Iranians.
And what you do not understand is that you can kill thousands, hundreds of thousands, but all of your bombs, missiles, and soldiers will not make a dent in a concept! And this is the huge flaw in your thinking.
Horist clearly wants us to nuke Iraq and Syria the minute one of our soldiers are killed. That’s the only way to do non-specific attacks. In Horist’s world there is no time taken for planning, just retaliate immediately, and in a very big way.
What’s weird is in our entire history no president has retaliated immediately.
Andrew Gutterman …Take your meds!!! What you say is “clear” is not even true. No, I do not want to nuke Iraq and Syria. LOL. I like to have a “planned” and “appropriate” response — one that ends the aggression against us. Based on my experience at the White House, I know that our military plans in place for almost every possible situation. I did not call for what you call “non-specific attacks.” You have have read any of my commentaries –and comprehended what I wrote — you would know that I call for “specific” responses that are designed to end any future attacks. There is no one “big way” to attack. How you respond depends on a lot of factors … BUT the bottom line is that the response terminate the ability of the enemy to attack in the future. I do believe in the “shot across the bow” in terms of the first instance — the “send a message” approach. But when there is another attack, I would take them out. I would not wait for four months and more than 160 attacks. Nothing Biden did degraded or stopped the terrorists. It is not stop them from escalating. So, what was Biden’s purpose with his pin-prick responses? My approach is to end conflicts quickly and decisively with minimal American casualties rather than stretch out a war and compile more deaths over a long period of time. Even if you are afraid of Iran, we can still wipe out the terrorist organizations — leaving Iran with no surrogates. It should be obvious to anyone that the Biden/Chamberlain approach has not worked — then and now.
Very true! Even G.W. Bush took a month to do some basic planning before he started the war in Afghanistan. And in my estimation, our troops performed with excellence but our hawkish leadership let us down by failing to plan what to do with these two countries after we won on the battlefield. All it did was create a power vacuum which Iran was happy to fill. Yes the GOP Administration under G.W. Bush created the power vacuum and allowed Iran to fill the void, now Larry wants the Dem administration under Biden to fix what the GOP screwed up by bombing and missiling Iran which I am concerned will have terrible consequences for Israel.
I sense your frustration Larry, I feel some of the same. But let me ask you, what measure are you using to determine effectiveness? It seems like your measure is that it stopped the undesirable behavior. This kind of measure is really nothing more than the ole zero tolerance approach turned inside out. I have already spoken of how these zero tolerance policies often fail because they do not take into account any exceptions, which in this case might be: 1) Many ammo depots, many IRG strongholds, a determined foe, potential dynamics changes if our response backfires, etc.
With regard to your statement that we need to go after Iranian assets, well we did. In the news I watched the response targeted IRG assets and munitions storage in Syria. Also, I watched the interview and Kirby also said this is only the first phase of a total response that was very dependent on planning, weather, timing and risk to our military personnel/assets, and anticipated second reprisals by Houthi/Iran. From other Kirby responses there appears to be three phases – but I cannot tell you what phase two and three are, and that’s good. Telling me will also mean telling Iran.
I think I can agree with your concern that Biden has shown since his first day of POTUS that his responses tend to be minimally confrontational. I think this is what Kirby means by “measured” in that the did something that was minimally confrontational, risked minimum lives and assets, and still sent some sort of message that the administration wanted to send. Biden seems to have a aggression tolerance scale that is more graduated than what many of us might like. But I will give him credit that at least a major Middle East war involving the USA has not started yet.
I think right now we are in a wait and see period for the next few weeks to see what effect our strikes (85 + 35 targets) has had on the situation. I do not think Iran has as much control over the Houthis as we think. But they do have control over what they send to Houthis. I am also sure there is much going on behind the scenes that we will have to wait and see on.
One benefit of these strikes is that what ever we destroyed cannot be sent to Hamas in Palestine. And that is one goal we should have. Now in phase 2 and 3 I do hope he will use the element of surprise instead of telegraphing to the Iranians and Arab world what he intended to do. We should cut off any discussions with Iran and initiate a few surprise attacks of our own – this is all the Houthis will understand. And the only thing Iran will understand is hitting their ability to generate revenues that they can use to sponsor these proxy organizations. So in other words, Iran hits our ships, we hit their oil wells and nuclear capability with a destruction value ten times what they destroyed. And then lets measure the effect.
Tom … events move fast. This commentary was written before the Biden Response. I just sent in one that deals with that. Same old too little/too late. And by Iranian assets, I refer to those assets inside Iran — such as the factories building the weapons, etc. Biden lets Iran off the hook even as he says they are responsible.
Larry, I understand your desire to cut off the head of the Iran snake but I do think your vision is clouded on this one. Iran has threatened that if we do as you wish, they will reign down missiles on Israel, and those missiles will be the more lethal ones. The problem that I see is that this will overtax Israels “Iron Dome” which we supply the Patriot missiles for. The problem is we no longer have a stock of those missiles to send to Israel because many have been sent to Ukraine. So it will mean lots of death for Israeli citizens.
I do not think Biden is letting Iran off the hook. I think (and hope) that Biden is being a good fisher and properly setting the hook before reeling Iran. Look at this as a bodily combat injury. First there is usually triage for stabilization which in this case is eliminating the munitions and capabilities and supplies outside of Iran which is the heart. Then the wounded soldier gets evac to a facility to repair and return function. This is what you want first (evac before stabilize) and all I am saying is we will need time, info, assessments, alliance, planning, risk assessments, casualty estimates, asset locations, etc. before making any kind of strike on Iran. I am not saying we should not do that at some point if the aggression does not stop, just now is not the time with Israel engaged with Hamas and our supply of missiles and shells so low.
By the way, it was the GOP administration under Bush that destroyed Iraq by rushing into it with faulty British info about Sadam having WMD. This is what created the power vacuum that Iran was happy to fill and the gateway to the terrorism you now are so madly wanting to defeat. So by advocating that we rush to destroy Iran you are advocating that a Dem administration fix the screw up of the GOP administration. I find that a bit ironic! Just as I find your sudden belief of Biden when he says Iran controls the Houthis after spending 3.x years excoriating Biden, calling him a liar, calling him demented, etc. etc. So now suddenly you choose to believe him??? It appears that you are getting advice from Mitt Romney!!!
So I am saying that I am ok with what Biden is doing for now, and for a little while to give time for all else to fall into place for us. I will look forward to your future commentary. I do think your wish to save lives is admirable, and I commend that. We just disagree on how to do that. You want to spend lives to save lives while I want to first see what can be done without spending those precious young people’s lives in the first place.
You are probably correct that had we did a month ago what we did last week it may have saved those three soldiers. Unfortunately this will never be able to be proven, but I do think it likely. We have no disagreement here.
My assessment of restrained response is based on not escalating and is not based on casualty figures for either side. Restrained response limits casualties. As I said earlier, it is easier to escalate than it is to de-escalate. And the valuable time that restraint can gain will result in better planning and less American losses. Restrained responses and strategic retreats are a part of the larger war picture and can be effective tools. Actually what Biden did is according to Sun Tzu, “Art of War”, where it is said to be better to attack the enemy successively at his weakest points rather than his strongest points where there is much greater risk. I hope you will consider these wise readings in your strategies. Sun Tzu was the North Vietnamese war bible, and look what they did!
You say, “Why do you guys find defeating terrorism and other US aggressive adversaries so repulsive. You really so afraid that you will let America, Israel, Ukraine go done in defeat?” Your assessment of me is totally wrong. I just having a different perspective and way of playing the war game having been involved in one before, having a USAF Colonel in the Might 8th Army Air Corpse, for a father, and between us having been in four wars. You reference WWII a lot but do you know how often we had to exercise restraint against Churchill’s desires in order for us to build up capability? And from time to time there may be the hazard of losing a few American lives in order to exercise a little restraint to plan effectively and win the long game. You and I just have a different way of arriving at the same desired goal of defeating an enemy.
Tom … Stop making excuses for you opinions. YOU do not think that Iran has as much influence over the Houthi as “we think” — whoever the we are. But even the Biden administration claims that Iran controls the terrorists and is “responsible” (their word). Your opinion seems to align with Iran propaganda. But if you are too afraid to take effective action against Iran, you have to make them less of a threat. And as far as all the targets hit in the recent round, explain to me why we did not hit those targets while they were hitting us more than 160 times over the past four months. Maybe had we not been so retrained, the dead and wounded American soldiers would be alive and well today. They are dead and injured because Biden — as I have repeatedly written — is always too little/too late.
Ok, let me take it one at a time. First, the Houthis and Iran, as well as Hamas have similar world view. But if you have been reading other sources than your traditional go to sources, you will find that Iran exercises much more control over Hamas than Houthis. And yes, they are being supplied by Iran, but they are not nearly as coupled to Iran as other terror organizations are couple to Iran. You can find many article on this if you step outside your conservative narrative to examine the truth.
I understand your frustration and flashbacks regarding your grandson, and how it makes you a super hawk to kill as many Iranian and regional terrorists as you can. But it is ok if others do not share your point of view. Nearly 40 were killed in our strikes so I hope this begins to meet your blood quota. You really would be best to ask your question about the 160 former attacks that were not addressed to Kirby, not me. Now if you research, you will find these 160 attacks started in October right after the Hamas raid into Israel. There have been several groups that comprise the 160 attacks. So we had 15 weeks to learn who the groups were, where they are located, and run surveillance to determine their activities and where there weapons / munitions cashes are located. If you read this article you will find at lest two reasons: 1) These strikes constitute a violation of Iraqi sovereignty and undermine the efforts of the Iraqi government, posing a threat that will pull Iraq and the region to undesirable consequences, with severe implications for security and stability in Iraq and the region; 2) Iraqi officials have complained about their country being turned back into a warzone as the U.S. and Iranian groups clash. 3) Concern for the 2500 troops and their fate in a potentially widened conflict. 4) Concern for what our allies and other countries that have tenuous relations with us and that we do not want to destabilize; 5) We were sitting on the situation to garner support as well as allowing Europe to see and feel what is happening, as they did not want to do anything about it and were a problem getting onboard. 6) Because China supports Iran, this becomes a black eye to China. Did you notice that China had some stern words right away for Iran after our soldiers were killed? Or did you miss this?? 7) We did not have a “righteous trigger” until our soldiers were hit. Up to this point, Houthi attacks had not hurt anyone nor destroyed any assets so attacking them earlier would have given much propaganda talking points to Iran, China, Russia, and would have caused questioning of us by our European allies. By the way, we had started to address the problem by moving assets into the area that were not there before October. We are stretched thin because of the South China Sea and Ukraine. See https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4445165-us-begins-retaliatory-strikes-for-jordan-attack/
Did I give you enough explanation?
Larry, I seriously want you to think about this: The last time we exhibited hawkishness like you propose we got into a 20 year war that saw a very stupidly negotiated withdrawal by a dumbass president that did not include the legitimate government of Afghanistan in the negotiations with the terrorists, we saw an even dumber withdrawal, and you lost a grandson. Do you wish all this on other families now ????How many more young people will our wonderful country have to lose to satisfy your blood thirst???
Do you realize we lost 7,054 soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan!!!???? Do you want sadness for another 7054??? Any other grandsons you wish to contribute because I am not going to contribute mine nor my son for your blood thirsty hawkish and wreckless notion that we should just go in there and kick ass. Sorry my friend, but you have not thought this one out very well. And I am not afraid to take a stance. The difference between you and me is that I was in the military and did put my life on the line. I did not sit at home on the sidelines and write opinion articles about it. That is the difference. A smart soldier knows when to fight and when to flight to fight another day when the advantages are more in their favor.
Tom … Your presumptions border on arrogance. You presume to KNOW what sources I use. You presume my feelings and motivations. You even presume how my grandson’s death may influence my thinking — which I find offensive, to say the least. Especially, since you are wrong in all your descriptions. I cannot understand why you join Frank in creating your own Larry Horist as your straw man to justify false claims and poor arguments.
With regard to how you judge effective action. Come on, man. That is a no brainer. The aggression ends with a surrender …official or merely secession of aggression. Do you recall how kadaifi stopped sponsoring international terrorism — after he got linked to the Olympics and Lockerbie — when Reagan bomb the presidential palace. That is what I call and “effective” response. Dropping the bomb on Japan was “effective” action — and saved tens of thousands of American lives in an invasion of Japan as the only alternative.
You admiration for incremental escalation is what got those Americans killed. The US actions taken in the past were obviously too little and tragically too late.
You use the wrong examples. I have been critical of the handling of the war in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. Because we did not fight to win. That is supposed to be goal in a war… to DEFEAT the enemy, Not play tit for tat. Even if you are afraid of Iran, there was no reason we could not have wiped out the Houthis and others when then first attacked American military personnel and equipment. You do not think that more than 160 attacks on the American military — plus all the attack on shipping — are acts of war?
Our goals are stated. We want Russia out of Ukraine. We want Hamas destroyed. We want the other terrorist groups to surrender or be wiped out. We want Iran to stop funding terrorism against us and the west or be forced to stopped. They use their military against us … to destroy us … we make sure that they give up that ambition or are made incapable of pursuing that ambition.
Larry if you would cite your sources one would not have to presume. End of that discussion! LOL
Your offense is not my concern. Remember, this is your approach. So stop whining. As you said about that woman, if you cannot handle it, there is something wrong with you, not me. Remember that discussion?? Chickens are coming home to roost with this issue! LOL
I do not partner with Frank. Our comments are independent but not necessarily mutually exclusive. You see them as conjoined at the hip for some reason. Not sure why that is.
Yes you have just verified that my “presumption” of your meaning of effective was correct – though earlier you said it was not. The Japan comment reveals this. What you fail to see is that there was a declared war going on with Japan that was costly in lives and materials for all involved. This is much different that taking an action that will start a war.
I remember Libya very well. I also remember quite a bit of tolerance until Europe got involved with Lockerbie, Schottland. But you are incorrect. Reagan linked the bombing of the German Discoteque to Momar and that was when Reagan made the decision to bomb him in April 1986. It was called Operation El Dorado Canyon. Lockerbie did not occur until December 1988. Check your facts please!
I did not get any Americans killed. That was terrorists and Bush who screwed up the balance of power in the Middle East when he wiped out Iraq and Iran moved in unopposed. That was your GOP buddies.
I already answered the remainder of your statements. We shall agree to disagree!
Tom, because Larry is a pugnacious prick who plays the victim with the world ganging up against him. Just like Trump.
He can’t argue his points because often they are just bad. So he tries another route to stay off topic, out of focus, and diverting to something he can be an expert on —– how he feels you are doing him wrong.
Tom … Let me get this straight. You need sources when I say you should not presume my motivation or feelings. Did it not occur to you that I am the best source to know my motivations and feelings. You are getting it from the primary source. If i were to misrepresent you feeling or motivations, could you give me an outside source? LOL
And you gave me sufficient explanation to know that you experience in foreign affairs is limited. You interpretations of varies events — and how they connect — is weak, to say the least. You actually take Iraq’s complaints seriously. LOL they are pro forma — meant for public consumption — not to be taken seriously as an ominous or threatening statement. Pakistan issued similar statement when we killed Bin Laden … and Afghanistan when we killed the leader of al Qaeda. The are diplomatic words meant to evoke nothing. You can put China’s “stern words,” as you called them, in the same category.
Frank Stetson … The windmills of your mind seem to be driven by a lot of hot air — with your usual childish name calling. Getting your goat is fun, however. For the record, I do not feel victimized. Au contraire. I am one happy guy … and very lucky. Far from a victim. I assume the gang you see ganging up on me is a group numbering less than the fingers on one hand — not counting the thumb. And you are mostly gaming up on the Larry Horist of your imagination. I state my opinion and facts in my commentary, I am not your debate opponents. And as far as getting of topic, you are the champion. No matter the topic you segue to your anti-Trump litany … and you and Tom are chatting off topic regularly. As i said before, I am in your head. You are not in mine. So you can give up the begging and cajoling.
A trip down a single thread memory lane with Larry, just the first sentence just his opening salvo, as is his way:
That is utter nonsense.
Take your meds!!!
Stop making excuses for you opinions.
Your presumptions border on arrogance.
Nice arrogant pat on your own back.
There you go again. Making up bullsh*t.
It goes downhill from there. I responded: “Larry is a pugnacious prick who plays the victim with the world ganging up against him. Just like Trump. He can’t argue his points because often they are just bad. So he tries another route to stay off topic, out of focus, and diverting to something he can be an expert on —– how he feels you are doing him wrong.”
To wit Horist said: “The windmills of your mind seem to be driven by a lot of hot air.”
Yeah, your hot air.
Larry I was addressing your first sentence that you said I presume to know your sources. Your second sentence was that I presume your motivations and feelings. I was not addressing this sentence. Again, you have misread even your own writing! Come on man!!!
By the way, if you are so good on geopolitics, why did you get the reason for Reagan bombing Libya wrong!??? Did you think you were going to sneak those erroneous facts by me???
I would like to thank you though for the conversation. There is a bright side to it all that I owe you a debt of gratitude for. Thanks to your words, I know understand why the GOP mindset back in the G.W. Bush era screwed up in Iraq. Bush Administration relied on faulty data and rather than take the time to make sure the data was correct, they jumped on toppling Saddam Hussein. Only later to have to admit the data was faulty – the “big oops”! I know get it. GOP mindsets have an over reliance on weapons and killing and an under reliance on fact gathering, as well as a lack of understanding of Geopolitics.
And by the way, I also noticed you did not answer up to two items I mentioned 1) Why you spend 3.x years bashing Biden, calling him a liar, calling him demented, and strongly insinuating he does not know what he is doing; and yet you rely on him when he says Iran controls Houthis??? 2) Why you want a Dem administration to fix the Iran situation that a GOP administration allowed to happen under Bush?
Again, you have shocked me at your lack of knowledge of current Middle East geopolitics and how quickly sentiment can shift and how tenuous US relations are with some of these countries – which makes bombing Iran a very high risk affair with many repercussions.
Oh my Tom, after midnight, you and Eric Clapton :>)
Bush Sr. always wanted a acheivable goal before going to war. What is the goal here? Punishment for three dead kids in service to our country? Stop the terrorism backing by Iran? Free Iran with a makeover Iran in our image? Help Israel feel safer? What does Horist intend to achieve? “The purpose of response is to have an impact – to degrade the enemy and STOP belligerent actions.” To Tom’s point, how do you measure that? How do you know that belligerent actions have been stopped and we can call of the dogs of war? How many kids do we risk to do that? Do we have to take over Iranian government? I mean, it’s a pretty loose goal that is difficult to measure.
Note that this is an election year, and while we all know Iran is funding terrorists, the chance that we are not sure in Gaza, but dead-bang sure in Jordan is more likely politics than “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Gulf of Tonkin, termed as the fly attacking the fly swatter, started Nam in an election year, August to be exact. Supposedly Johnson was screaming, cursing, etc. at the generals to prove the attack was verfied assault worthy of war, the data was imprecise, and he basicaly made war over politics, the attack was a nit. The Maddox had fired warning shots, the torpedo boats responded with torpedos, planes flew, a torpedo boat was damaged, and the Madox sailed out unharmed. The next day the Maddox reported many sightings, then the Captian reported no action, no sightings, freaky weather conditions and false sightings, but the damage was done. Johnson discounted the Captain, war escalation was on, and the rest is history. Johnson was re-elected a few months later.
There were no babies in incubators in Kuwait before Desert Storm. Bush, the ex-head of the CIA, missed that intelligence oops, but being the “prudent” warrior, he entered the war with focus, a goal, obtained said goal and left. I liked that man, and that war. Until the hawk Cheney decided to finish the game with more lies and too many lives lost.
Horist can call me a Chamberlain, but I can call him Tonkin-Incubator man….. I do not want to send our kids to die for this. I do not want to free and rebuild Iran in our image. Has failed more than succeeded, that strategy has. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and more. That’s why I like the Ukraine strategy even though one would think Ukraine is in our image already. But I am jaded and one Zelenaki does not a democracy make. So, Chamberlain no, careful yes, prudent always.
I think Horist indicates we should target assets, as in money. I agree. And while we can continue to hold the paybacks back which I think was done some time ago, anything esle should be fair game. But we must know that post 9/11, after we started following the money, the bad guys stopped using banking we can follow. Its not electronic, it’s not brick n motar banks, it’s in suitcases and safehouses…. So I agree, but not sure how much we can profit by this unless we have figured out how to name the camal caravan with the suitcases or find the “bank” it is kept in. We can aslo bring more sanctions to bear, etc. and that means more oil for China.
I would favor Biden escalating what he started. Level all Houthis’ installations, and Hothis as we can. Same for whatever group killed our three kids. Take out Iran’s infrastructure, especially the oil since oil is money assets too. Tell them we are going to do it. Don’t go in, just bomb them back to the dark ages via infrastructe and as little human life, innocents espeically, as possible. I am pretty sure we’ve got our eye for an eye, let’s just send the message, a strong message and see whether Iran listens or not. I have to imagine that tween the Israeli’s and us, we already have a plan for that.
I think Biden has sent a good first salvo. The problem is the Iranian response. I don’t expect the Iranians to jump up and yell, OK, we will stop. I promise. Instead, the Iranians will bluster, but then we will see whether they escalate, do nothing, or stand down. Chances are they will scream a lot, do nothing, but does that stop them from funding terrorism? To Tom’s point, how much and how do we measure success?
Beyond punishment, what is the goal? And how much punishment is needed to achieve that goal? But that should determine whether we hit more targets and how many. So far military. Next I would like to see the oil, electric, roads, internet, infrastructure hit. I just don’t know how we move forward after that to assure they change their ways.
And being Chamberlain? Like I said, we have already got our eye for an eye, thats not being Chamberlain. The payment in kind has already been met, now we are in the punishment phase and the question is: what is the goal? I think Horist is wrong, but also that Biden better come clean with his intentions and goals determining his next act.
I agree Frank, we are not Chamberlains. We just have a more restrained thought driven process rather than such an emotionally driven process. Yes all Americans need to study the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the faulty British intel on Iraq WMD to know what misinformation can do!
I agree, that our response salvo was good. Now we must wait to see how Iran responds before commencing the punishment phase. We must also make sure we can support Israel’s iron dome as well because there will surely be missiles rained down on Israel. And we should include Israel in our planning since they probably know more about Iran than we do. So best to do the missile sites and ammunition storage first followed by power plants next, then hit the revenue source oil fields to deny them repair cash and frustrate the economy. I agree that Biden needs to stay on the clean side of this with his intentions and goals, and be forthcoming with his intentions. I’m sure right now the Military Industrial Complex is partying like its 1999!!!
Tom,
It’s dealer’s choice in that Iran will never acquiesce to our bombing and killing. It’s up to us to decide when enough is enough. Last thing we want is to create symphathy like Israel has for Gaza. Only time will tell. Meanwhile, I listened to the Pentagon guy today droning on about we don’t want war, no escalation, yada yada yada, just like Iran but for the Houthi. BS on that. While Iran needs a really strong message as a sponsor, level the Houthis, they are the terrorists. It should be on par with ISIS in Syria for them.
And any other terrorist group firing on us.
Then we can sit back and see if this stew is cooked or do we need more spice.
I sold my Defense mutual, don’t talk to me about having a Complex :>) Unfortunately I did not have it under my Iron Dome and will suffer great taxes.
Yes I agree, Iran will not stop doing what it is doing unless there is change from within. And Houthis are not likely to stop as long as Israel and Hamas are at it. I just do not like Larry’s approach of hitting Iran. I am fine with hitting the Houthis hard as hell. So I agree. Leveling the Houthis will send a very strong message to Iran. Will they listen is anyone guess, I’m betting only for a time until they can get another group of deplorable together to shoot missiles.
I just am not in favor of committing American lives going after Iran yet when we can wipe out other terrorist groups that are working for Iran. Larry thinks people like me will be responsible for more American lives lost. But he does not look at how many American lives will be lost by his approach.
Why did you dump your Defense stocks?
Tom,
To quote the prophet, BOWIE
“I could do with the money (you know that I)
I’m so wiped out with things as they are (you know that I)
I’d send my photograph to my honey
And I’d come on like a regular superstar.”
After 10% profit , I tend to sell on the general principles that what goes up, can come down, AND that I can do it again elsewhere by buying low, selling high. So I realize the money. Most often it’s sheltered, so no taxes today. With equities, I use some form on trailing loss limit. Sometimes, if a stock has been sketchy, I put it pretty tight and often far less than 10%. Unfortunately can’t do that with mutuals, but I have bought and sold this one so many times I cannot count. So I sold, took the profit set the target to re-enter, and now am waiting. It’s bouncing a bit, who knows what the senate clusterfuck could offer. I have a med one that is similar, but not quite as juicy.
I did pick up some PFE where I had sold mid-covid, after 5 years of waiting. But it’s 6% div so I can afford to be patient.
Tom, Jersey version from the prophet:
““I could do with some relish (you know that I)
I’m so wiped out with ketchup and mustard (you know that I)
I’d send my photograph to my honey
And I’d come on like a Taylor Pork Roll superstar.”
Tom … Nice arrogant pat on your own back. You and Frank are dealing with a thought driven process, and others (me?) are just emotional. To me such self praise is a recognition that you know your statements are not going to get praise from others — except you biromantic buddy Frank. You agree with Frank that the response salvos were good. For what? What did they deter? What did they stop? What did they degrade? Nothing. And if you think that Gulf of Tonkin situation is a comparable to anything happening today, YOU should go study it. But I have to admit, I find you guy amusing, You have found a space online to carry on a mutual admiration kinship — even to chat about personal matters unrelated to the commentaries. LOL And I respect that. Your right. Free speech. Just weird….LOL
Larry, the best I can give you is a partial list from the news I have heard: 1 ground control station, 10 or more drones, many missiles, three Russian jets, 12 or more Russian attack helicopters used to board cargo ships, a drone heading to a ship, several missile launchers, command and control nodes, munitions, depots, launching systems, production facilities with critical missile components, air defense radar systems, and 16 Houthi militant locations known to be backed by Iran. Oh and somewhere around 40 or more Houthi militants killed. This is as of monday morning, and I’m sure its partial Not sure what we got today but strikes are continuing. This is a degradation of their supplies and equipment to wage attacks on us and shipping.
I am glad some of our discussions amuse you. I am always happy when you are happy.. I am sure we all agree on free speech rights. ::>)
Oh Larry, so tell us once again about being a bag boy and seeing a heartwarming moment between the races as proof positive we are not a racist nation……
Yeah, no personal stuff there.
Oh, tom and frank talk about other things….. well, fuck, we can’t discuss issues with you so why not?
Oh, it’s a bromance —- so, two guys are talking and your gaydar goes off? have you blown Joe lately?
We would talk with you if you knew how….. I’ve been asking you for Stone Crab advice forever. Gave up and had to roll my own. The Florida Cracker just arrived. I love it, top of the line.
My, my, my … Little Frankie Stetson is pouting and whining. Same old song and dance. And the usual bullsh*t. I base more understanding we Americans are not racist people on more than one of my growing up moments. Perhaps you snide criticism is you never had any. Maybe your belief that Americans are racists is projecting your own racial attitude.
It is your gaydar that went off. “Bromance” is NOT a gay terms. I generally means a non-sexual friendship. But I guess you see gay everywhere — and obviously think of it in negative terms.
And as far as civil dialogue, you are by far the number one ankle biter on PBP — with all your sarcasm, snide remarks, childish insults and … yes. lies. And Frankie, it is not about me — although i am you obsessive target — you treat others writers and responders on PBP in the same way.
In all honesty, I pity you. From all you write and the tone, I cannot help see an old may without a sense of self worth try to impress the world with his self-determined wit, wisdom and wealth. With all you write, I cannot see how you have much time for a life away from the computer. At least you should try for shorter responses of better quality and accuracy — and less nasty. Everything you call for — serious dialogue, civil discussion, more documentation — you are the worst example of.
You were write about one thing. Calling me out for not keeping my New Year resolution to ignore you idiocy. Damn those resolutions,. never was good at them. But I have done better in ignoring you more than before. I will try to continue to improve. LOL
Biden is delusional in his little if any effort to do anything substantial.
I am waiting for him to step to a podium and tell the American public
he remembers the time he was overseas and Hamas tried to blow him up and he had to fight back.
All of the responses here are for a GUY who does not know what time of day it is unless it is written down for him to say.
He is a demented old man with more power than he ever deserved.
It is amazing to me in this country how far a person can get Kissing Baby’s and Asses and
can run his obliviousness all the way into the White House!
With this said Larry you are above this rebuttal, and a band of fools are trying to debate what the correct action
or actions should have been taken.
Biden had done NOTHING and will continue to do NOTHING.
ALL of the wars are a POISION PILL for the Democrat’s, they know it. So lets keep working the Broom and
Sweep this by the American people every day till election.
I did not say sweep it under the Rug as he is to frail to lift one!
Darren, have you missed that part where Biden is ordering strikes all the time? Strikes in Yemen, Iraq, and Syria? Over 40 dead in one strike in that if you next to the bombs, we will blow you up. At least 20 militia dead in Yemen, probably many more times that once we get to countying
How much more is acceptable to you?
What’s your quota for bombs/day in punishment for 3 of our kids gone and 40 wounded, some severly according to Horist.
Well Frank, 40 dead. That out to do it.
Very effective President!
Even a blind Squirrel can sometimes find a nut.
Darren I find your comment about Biden interesting. You, like Larry, call him dilusional and demented. Your words say, ” Larry is “above this rebuttal, and a band of fools are trying to debate what the correct action or actions should have been taken.” YET LARRY NOW BELIEVES BIDEN WHEN BIDEN SAYS HOUTHIS ARE CONTROLLED BY IRAN.
How do you explain the man which you say is “above rebuttal” believing and basing his whole commentary on the man you say is disillusion and demented???
Tom .. There you go again. Making up bullsh*t. I have indicated that Biden shows signs of physical and mental diminishment. I have not said he was delusional or demented. In fact, I had written that his condition is not beyond his ability to function, but that I do see him significantly debilitated over the next four years. Frank, I think the odds are against his completing a second term. That is my opinion … and my concern. I strongly disagree with Biden’s politics and policies — but that is true apart from his mental condition. I do not believe is bad policies are related to aging. I agree with 80 percent of Americans — including jimmy Carter — who believe Biden is too old to be President. And the majority of Americans who think he is showing signs of physical and mental age-related issues.
And … I never said Biden was my reason for believing Iran controls the entire terrorist network. That comes from many sources — American and international. That is the opinion of virtually the entire western intel community. (perhaps my reading and sources are more extensive than yours). What I am saying is that unlike you, I am not believing Iranian propaganda on the subject — or the leftwing talking heads on television.
Actually Larry, you did reference Biden administration:
YOUR CLAIM THIS BLOG: “I never said Biden was my reason for believing Iran controls the entire terrorist network.”
YOUR EARLIER COMMENT IN THIS BLOG: “But even the Biden administration claims that Iran controls the terrorists and is “responsible” (their word). ” THIS IS YOU BELIEVING THE BIDEN ADMIN LARRY!!!! YOU ARE BASING YOUR CONVINCING ARGUMENT ON THE FACT THAT EVEN THE BIDEN ADMIN BELIEVES THIS!!! SO BIDEN IS AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR REASONS!!
TOM’S COURT VERDICT: LARRY IS LYING!!!
LIST YOUR SOURCES!!! OTHERWISE, THE VERDICT IS CONFIRMED!!!
LIST YOUR WESTERN INTEL COMMUNITY (otherwise this is a bullshit line from one of the best bullshitters in the USA)
Thank you for your clarification of the term “Bromance”. Seems to me that you and I qualify under this clarification! I am happy to bromance you Larry!!!
With regard to Biden, you have called him maladroit, inept, full of gaffes, and in Feb 2023 you said this: “There is no doubt that Biden has shown signs of aging — physically and mentally. He occasionally loses his train-of-thought, forgets stuff or has that senior bewildered look – those so-called “senior moments.”. What we see from a distance may only be early signs of decline – but not necessarily alarming. Perhaps the most significant result of any cognitive decline is Biden’s avoidance of press conferences and unscripted public appearances. But he should assure the American public that he is not only in good condition today, but that the prospects are good for the next five years, if he wants to be in the Oval Office for a second term.”
BASICALLY YOU ARE SAYING BIDEN IS DEMENTED. PERIOD. YOU MAY NOT HAVE SAID THE WORD, BUT YOU DESCRIBED THE SYMPTOMS AND ASSIGNED THEM TO HIM.
FEB 8, 2021 YOU HARPED ON BIDEN’S COGNITIVE DECLINE, SAYING “Unless he is allowed to move out of his isolation bubble, we may not know the answers to all the questions regarding Biden’s cognitive decline and health at this moment, but there is enough to be seen on the surface to warrant the questions and concerns.”
YOU ALSO SAID THIS IN MAR 4 ,2021 “Make no mistake about it. Biden’s cognitive function is declining – and that will become more and more obvious month-after-month. It is one of the inevitabilities of old age — a condition that most Americans have seen in loved ones or even themselves.
MAYBE YOU DID NOT SAY DEMENTED, BUT YOU SURE DID DESCRIBE IT!!!
TOM’S COURT VERDICT: LARRY SPINS LIKE A TOP!!!
I once gave Biden only a 50/50 chance of completing his full term. After seeing his most recent senior moments, I would reduce that to about a 30 percent chance.”
Tom … YOU are lying. Yes, Biden was ONE of the sources that put the blame Iran — but not the excusive source. This is pretty much the consensus of western intel … Israel, of course .. and other Arab states. And such arrogance — assuming you are some sort of judge to give out verdicts on you baseless claims. If you were a court, you would be a kangaroo court. It is one thing to present you opinion, but quite another to be the judge … the referee … and the ultimate authority. You are a very bad representative of independent thinking. You are getting more like Frank and his BUSTED bullsh*t. You confirm that I did not call Biden demented, but in your mind, i described him as such. By saying he is showing mental decline? That is far from dementia. Maybe it is your mind that is the problem. Sorry Tom … but you have become nothing more than a pompous bag of hot air. Save if for you buddy Frank. LOL
Well Darren, nice of you to own up and say that. I don’t think 40 will do it. First, that’s all I could find, did not include Iran, and there are dead there for sure. And it only included Houthi militamen being buried that day. Also, we are not done. But they do know to run and hide now.
Biden apparently chose hitting a lot of military targets reckoning only military would be hit so less civilian casulaties. Smart tacktical move, especially hitting so many at once to get some maximum human damage. Again, now they know to run and hide and don’t sleep next to the drones.
We have 3 dead and 40 wounded. Not sure what we think the number is, but pretty sure the numbers/strike might go down after this first salvo. I would like to see some other infrastructure, oil being numero uno but that increases the risk of others getting pissy. So, not sure what he will do, not sure what I would do, but sure at heck he will do something else on top of current events.
I would bet the ambassador’s phones from both countries are going non-stop. Hope we get them to stand down, but them just not doing more or escalating may be the best there is.
But yeah, I like the cut of Joe’s jib. Gotta admit, they are firing, it may be cruise-like missiles at us and we’re just like — meh, no problem. And then we blast how many targets, how many locations, how many countries, for a few days in a row. On one kinda dark level: that’s so cool. And to think one of my kids is helping design them, that’s even cooler. And he’s to the left of me. Even cooler.
Bomb the sand ni$$ers back to the Stone Age
is so bad
Larry, it does not bother me that you point out Biden’s cognitive decline. This is what a good opine should do. What bothers me is that you have never a single time pointed out any, not a singe one of Trump’s gaffes or decline, or his being obese. Last week he referred to Nikki Haley as Nancy Pelosi. Where were you when this happened? He has had many cognitive decline gaffes.
Former President Donald Trump appeared to briefly forget that Republican Congressman Ronny Jackson no longer serves as White House doctor while insisting that he is “a lot sharper than” GOP presidential rival Nikki Haley.
Trump, 77, has recently raised eyebrows over a series of blunders that have included slurring his words during campaign speeches, seemingly suggesting that former President Barack Obama is currently in office and most recently appearing to confuse Haley with former Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
READ MORE AT: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-another-gaffe-while-defending-cognitive-state-1862992
WHY ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO HIDE THIS OR TURNING A BLIND EYE LARRY?
Tom … Either you do not follow my commentaries as much as you appear to do form all you responses. Or you are forgetting. I have written my criticism of Trumps personality. I wrote one commentary on what a bad communicator he is. Have criticized his lying and his needlessly provocative language. Also ,.,. there is no end of the reporting on Trump’s character. I tend to write about what is under reported or misreported. On a couple occasions, I challenged you and others to give me a list of the things Trump did as President that you like. Never a response. You have been myopically negative on Trump in every way. i have praised Biden for things he did that I thought were right. Such as his initial response to the Hamas attack. So …who is more objective? Contrary to a few ankle biters, I generally get compliments on my writing in style and content — even from some of my most liberal Democrat friends. That is why your and Frank’s whining means nothing to me. Just a little social sword crossing — mostly amusement. Nothing serious.
Again Larry you spin!!! What I asked was why you avoid talking about Trumps cognitive blunders? Yet you always talk about Biden’s cognitive blunders! Again you spin it to avoid an answer and attempt to besmirch me. I even gave you a reference article when I wrote; “READ MORE AT: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-another-gaffe-while-defending-cognitive-state-1862992* wHEN YOU ANSWERED ABOUT TRUMP, you talked his personality, inability to communicate, his lying and provocative language BUT YOU AGAIN DID NOT TALK ABOUT HIS COGNITIVE BLUNDERS AND DECLINE!!! The problem is that you think you are smarter than anyone else and that you can spin your way out of answers and nobody will notice – but you are wrong. And we do see your bull***t.
You did the same thing on the abortion topic. You had previously sold us on how deeply you support Israel. You also said how against abortion you are. And then when I asked why you support Israel so heavily when they are just about the easiest country to get an abortion, and I even posted links to their abortion policy, AGAIN you spun your answer to avoid answering the question. SPINNING IS A FORM OF BULLSHIT LARRY AND WE SEE IT IN YOU!!!
SO LARRY, WHY DO YOU AVOID TALKING ABOUT TRUMPS COGNITIVE DECLINE??? Please tell us the no spin truth!
Tom,
Re-read the 1.6 transcripts for the rally; trump’s and others. This is where I believe he really starts to come off the rails.
I am a huge advocate of bringing Trump back, live, but this time have the fact checkers ready to paste LIE stickers across the screen when he does it. He says the same lies all the time, should not be hard. But voters really need to hear this guy today. He sweats, he stammers, it’s a Nixonian look and the words of a madman. Play it loud, let people hear.