Select Page

New World Order Versus Old World Order

New World Order Versus Old World Order

I had a college professor who often said that before you can debate an issue, you need to define terms – so that both sides understand what they mean when they say something.  It is not only important.  It is essential to intelligent dialogue.

We hear a lot of discussion about “the world order” – and especially a “new world order.”  There is a lot of confusion as to what that means.  I shall try to give it some definition and meaning.

Let us begin with the core term, “world order.”  Basically, that means a configuration of nations, agreements, and policies that exist over a period of time.  It generally means a balance of factors that maintain general international stability.  It generally takes dramatic events to change the world order – to create a new world order.

We saw the world order change in 1776 when the colonies of Great Britain broke away and created a new world order of emerging democracies.  The world order based on European colonization had essentially ended.  We saw a new world order after the Civil War with the ending of slavery and a realignment of international allies.  President Franklin Roosevelt created a new world order by introducing welfare state socialism to the democracy menu.  And World War II produced a world order with Russian hegemony over half of Europe.  The world order changed when President Nixon led China out from behind the Bamboo Curtain – and again when President Reagan ended the cold war.

In a very real sense, we are still living in the Reagan world order – but seemingly on the precipice of change.  That means a lot of talk about a new world order – an event that has two meanings today.  The term is used to define the factual major changes in the configuration and relationships between nations – and the agreement and policies that are changing.  

There’s another definition for many people.  It refers to the belief in the existence of a sinister cabal of powerful people who are manipulating the events for their own benefit – for power and profit.  Oddly, they are best known by folks sitting in front of their computers browsing through the Internet’s dark corners – the birthplace of conspiracy theories.  There is little validity to the theories, but they do impact on political discourse.  In the extreme, it is the politics of paranoia.

Having said that, I am not suggesting that there are no powerful interests – in and out of government – who are promoting change in the post-Reagan world order.  

In my lifetime – since World War II — the world order changed from an imperial Europe and a world order based on a conflict between democracy and Communist autocracy.  It was the era of the Cold War – and not much changed until the fall of the Soviet Union and the emergence of a new world order.  

That new world order saw the end of the Russian occupation of scores of nations, the re-emergence of China into the world community of nations (with great national success), the end of European factionalism in favor of the European Union and NATO, and the dominance of the United States as the most powerful and influential nation on earth … by far.  

But that world order is now under attack.  In many ways, the instruments of change are not seeking a “new” world order, but the return of the old world order.  Russia and China – two nations that developed closer ties to the United States and commenced free-market reforms – have returned to the more autocratic and doctrinaire communist approach.  They have formed an alliance against American leadership, not unlike the days of the Cold War.  Vladimir Putin has launched an invasion of Ukraine as his next step in regaining hegemony over what was once called the “captive nations.”  China is looking to bring Taiwan back under the rule of Beijing – and to extend its hegemony over Southeast Asia, and its influence throughout the world.

For the first time since World War I, the new, new world order may not have America at its peak.  We seem to lack both the strong leaders and cultural resolve to maintain world leadership.  Comparisons to Great Britain may be, unfortunately, apt.  London once led the world with an empire upon which the sun never set.  Today, Great Britain is a formidable nation – but only one of many formidable nations.

The questions are:  Can the United States return to a positive headship role and maintain a world order based on peace — freedom, and democracy — or is decline inevitable and irreversible? 

Are we at a transition point between the old American-led world order and the new configuration of international power and governing philosophy? What will the future new world order look like?

I have no idea – but I am not optimistic.

So, there ‘tis.

About The Author

Larry Horist

So,there‘tis… The opinions, perspectives and analyses of Larry Horist Larry Horist is a businessman, conservative writer and political strategist with an extensive background in economics and public policy. Clients of his consulting firm have included such conservative icons as Steve Forbes and Milton Friedman. He has served as a consultant to the Nixon White House and travelled the country as a spokesman for President Reagan’s economic reforms. He has testified as an expert witness before numerous legislative bodies, including the U. S. Congress. Horist has lectured and taught courses at numerous colleges and universities, including Harvard, Northwestern, DePaul universities, Hope College and his alma mater, Knox College. He has been a guest on hundreds of public affairs talk shows, and hosted his own program, “Chicago In Sight,” on WIND radio. Horist was a one-time candidate for mayor of Chicago and served as Executive Director of the City Club of Chicago, where he led a successful two-year campaign to save the historic Chicago Theatre from the wrecking ball. An award-winning debater, his insightful and sometimes controversial commentaries appear frequently on the editorial pages of newspapers across the nation. He is praised by readers for his style, substance and sense of humor. According to one reader, Horist is the “new Charles Krauthammer.” He is actively semi-retired in Boca Raton, Florida where he devotes his time to writing. So, there ‘tis is Horist’s signature sign off.

35 Comments

  1. Americafirst

    We have an old-world order. We have a current world order. It’s called GOD!

    • B. JOY WATKINS

      AMEN!!! AMERICA FIRST! WE DON’T WANT COMMUNIST NEW WORLD ORDER. tHE ORDER WE HAD WITH TRUMP IS A MUCH BETTER WAY TO GO!! OUR ANCESTORS MADE THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS! THEY WERE WAY AHEAD OF THE WORLD AND WHAT IT WAS AND THEY STILL WORK TODAY!! GOD BLESS OUR ANCESTORS! MY ANCESTORS WERE INVOLVED IN SIGNING THOSE AND I AM PROUD TO SAY THEY WERE WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME AND IT STILL WORKS TODAY! GOD BLESS AMERICA, GOD BLESS TRUMP, AND GOD BLESS OUR AMERICAN PEOPLE!

  2. Grace Bruno

    You shouldn’t be optomistic because we are letting the people in power pull America down so that they can insert their Great ReSet. We sit back while elections are stolen and will be stolen in the future because these people intend on staying in power until the WEF tyrannical rule is installed. The WW2 generation is gone, and has been replaced by dumbed down younger generations and feminized men. The powers that be have closed every loop hole we must give them credit for that.

    • Tom

      First of all, elections are NOT being stolen. Trump lost, even his AG admitted it, as did his daughter Ivanka and many others in his circle. Many congress persons have come out privately and said they maintain the “stolen election lie” because it gets them support. Now on feminized men, you can blame that on the feminists that use the court system to constantly beat down men. This is a global phenom in democratic countries where women believe they can be just like men. My feeling is great, lets ship the feminists to the war in Ukraine and let the men sit this one out. We have had centuries of getting maimed and killed for God, Country, and protection of our women and children. Let the women handle the next couple of wars while we take a break!

      And by the way, Larry made the statement, “There’s another definition for many people. It refers to the belief in the existence of a sinister cabal of powerful people who are manipulating the events for their own benefit – for power and profit. Oddly, they are best known by folks sitting in front of their computers browsing through the Internet’s dark corners – the birthplace of conspiracy theories. There is little validity to the theories, but they do impact on political discourse. In the extreme, it is the politics of paranoia.” THE EXTREME RIGHT OF GOP LIKE MTG, ELECTION DENIERS LIKE YOU, ETC. ARE WHO HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!! AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM!!! 🙂

      • frank stetson

        At some point Tom, you just have to let it go. You can’t save every puppy in the pound. The concept of the WEF being single-minded, much less sneaking up on us, pulling the wool over our eyes, and then installing all sorts of nefarious societal contraptions is pretty hard to change. Like teaching a loon to row a boat. Literally.

        • Tom

          LOL Yeah you are right Frank! That’s one puppy that will not be saved! 🙂

        • JCAT

          YOU ARE RIGHT FRANK! THIS GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN IN HAS DESTROYED A LOT OF OUR COUNTRY. IT IS TIME FOR THE ADULTS NOW TO TAKE OVER AND FIX THE MESS THEY CAUSED!

          • Tom

            JCAT, exactly what do you mean when you yell out in all caps, “THIS GOVERNMENT”? Exactly what or whom are you referring to?

      • larry Horist

        Tom … Your screaming in chat land. As you know, I have avoided the the never-ending useless dialoged over the 2020 election. It is all academic and serves no purpose. The bell has rung on that round and we all need to go back to your corners. There are a lot more important things to debate.

        But if you want to talk about conspiracy theories, we should not just focus on the tinfoil hat crowd. What about the biggest conspiracy theory that was perpetrated in recent times. For more than two years, Democrats and folks on the left kept telling us with certainty that Trump had conspired with Russians in the meddling in the 2016 election. Robert Mueller dashed that one. Adam Schiff even lied — claiming that he has see the evidence (the equivalent of alien creatures at Roswell). The evidence did not exist. Whatever one thinks of Trump on other issues, he was the victim of a cynical conspiracy theory played out on the front page — not some obscure website.

        • frank stetson

          Whataboutism is alive in Larry-land; now he tosses the failed impeachment attempt at the hands of partisan Republicans stating it was a conspiracy: “For more than two years, Democrats and folks on the left kept telling us with certainty that Trump had conspired with Russians in the meddling in the 2016 election.” Somehow this is a segue from NWO?

          Ah, the memories. Some facts that led us there:
          1. The Russians meddled in our 2016 election.
          2. Team Trump met with the Russians hundreds of times BEFORE the election.
          3. Trump’s campaign manager made hundreds of millions installed a Russian puppet as Ukraine’s President who then raped the tax coffers to lead an over-the-top extravagant lifestyle until the Ukrainians deposed him and he fled to Mother Russia
          4. The Mueller report unequivocally determined a Russian Internet Research Agency’s social media disinformation assault supported Trump’s candidacy, attacking Clinton’s.
          5. Russian intelligence hacked, stole, and released material from the Clinton campaign and various Democratic Party organizations and individuals

          So, there ‘tis.

          There were plenty of reasons, and still are, for an investigation. The investigation did not turn up evidence of guilt which is different than exoneration. You claim he was tried on the front page; that’s his forte and he fired the first shot. The investigation resulted in charges against 34 individuals and 3 companies, 8 guilty pleas, and a conviction at trial. Trump pardoned all he could.

          One of the reasons that Mueller cannot exonerate trump was revealed during Trump’s own testimony as well. Mueller said Trump’s written answers were ‘generally’ not truthful. “Director Mueller, is it fair to say the president’s written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete, because he didn’t answer many of your questions, but where he did, his answers showed he wasn’t always being truthful?,” Rep. Val Demings, D-Fla., asked.

          “I would say generally.”

          In regards to exoneration, Mueller told Congress: “As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime.”

          Exoneration my ass; that’s a fairy tale you tell yourself to sleep better at night because you support a traitor to our country because you love those policies.

          I can go on here Larry, as well as confer the difference between a court of law and an impeachment trial in regards to the meaning of innocence. But what’s done is done, the man was not indicted, is deemed innocent at this point in the eyes of the law, except for the obstruction, which we still wonder why an innocent man would do it, no less the president of the United States, in that half the Senate is a bunch of ******* without any integrity. You and I can choose different people to fill that 50% 🙂

          But totally exonerated? The report says no. Mueller says no. Anything else would be spin.

          As a funny aside, I heard someone describe Mueller’s description of collusion and conspiracy. Imagine if you will that four bank robbers, two from Russia and two from America, get together over 100 times for meetings. No one says what was said, there is no documentation, we only know that the meetings happened. That is an example of potential collusion. One day one of the robbers opens the bank door and tells everyone to get on the floor. Another robber waits in the car. Another robber stands inside and disarms all of the guards. Another robber goes to the teller and demands money. At no time do the robbers talk to each other or visually recognize each other. Therefore, according to Muller, there is no conspiracy.

          What I like about that example is it tells you why it is most difficult to get an indictment and why these people are not going to go to court. However, it certainly gives you food for thought when it comes to impeachment. The bank was robbed, they all participated, it’s just that he did not pass this litmus test as coordinated as a conspiracy. Nicely played Madame nicely played.

          But it really wasn’t. It’s an artifact of the Trump mafiosi organizational model. The inner circle is very small generally consists of family members. For sensitive issues, they carry the direct commands, Trump rarely issues a sensitive direct command outside of that circle, just concepts. They are hardly ever thrown under the bus. The next circle is very close confidantes and sycophants. These can be thrown under the bus at any point. The remaining circles of power down to the lowest soldier in the organization are all cannon fodder.

          Another aside: have you read the October trump deposition, the fear of fruit festival? I think it’s time for your cognitive test again… please do me a favor, read the actual report and then write that story. Tell us what you think about Trump’s own tainted lies on that deposition.

          In closing, there was plenty enough smoke for an investigation. The investigation indicted and convicted many crimes and criminals. Trump got off, not enough evidence to convict although, for some reason, this innocent man had to obstruct justice over his innocence. He got off because Republicans let him off, independent of any reason that is true. We told you he was guilty, we still believe there is something fishy about all those Russian meetings, and we told you he would attempt to cheat America again. On 1.6.2021, based on The Big Lie, he sent an armed mob to the Capitol to stop and then overturn our election and perhaps worse. They were hunting Pence and Pelosi. People died during and after the events of that day. Trump can shoot someone and get away with it. His words, his actions. Even staunch supporting Republicans were seen running for their lives on that day. Almost all of you team called those actions deplorable, and called Trump deplorable, at least for 24 hours before they came to the Republican consensus that they need to continue to support this traitor. And then he stole hundreds of top-secret documents as his final act of a traitor.

          Yes, innocent until, and we don’t have the proof. And you love the policies. But come on man, you know he is as dirty as they come. Personally, professionally, in the past, present, and future unless we convict him this time around. Third times a charm, Larry. Georgia is on my mind. And then the documents. And then 1.6.2021. And soon, the Swalwell suit testing the limits of free speech against insurrection. Cool.

          • larry Horist

            Frank Stetson … you are spreading a lie. Yes, Russians meddled in the 2016 election. BUT … after 18 months of investigations by folks unfriendly to Tromp … $35 spent … thousand of interview,. etc. etc. etc. The Mueller report stated that no American conspired with the Russians … period. You are spreading a false conspiracy theory even after it has been debunked. A person in America is innocent until proven of guilt in a court of law. That makes Trump innocent of the charge. If the definition has any meaning, Trump was exonerated of conspiring with Russian meddling. Exonerated = an official body absolve (someone) from blame for a fault or wrongdoing, especially after due consideration of the case.

            Your bank robbing analogy is not appropriate, it is stupid. You think a person is guilty of robbing a bank when they only had unrelated conversations with those who robbed the bank. Credibility is not judged by the number of words you Your entire long screed is off the point and irrelevant to the accusation.

            Youi are also confused. What is all that crap about impeachment. Trump was not impeached for Russian meddling. Your screed is based on ignorance of the facts. Something you are guilty off far too often.

          • frank stetson

            Barr pre-empted the release of the Mueller Report with his famous letter that shaped the narrative for conservatives looking to shoot down the effort in its entirety.

            Mueller immediately stated that Barr’s summary “did not fully capture the context, nature and substance” of the work and the conclusions while creating what Mueller termed “public confusion.” Larry is publicly confused.

            In their 400+ page report, they detailed on over half of that what Mueller called “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” Further, Mueller said they proved that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton,” “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against Clinton campaign and they also released numerous stolen documents.

            That fits the definition of collusion; you don’t need both sides to even talk.

            Re conspiracy, Mueller was clear that a “statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.”

            Mueller said: the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

            He could not conclude conspiracy beyond a shadow of a doubt however. Even the famed Trump Tower meeting did not meet the threshold, although while the conduct did not technically amount to conspiracy does not mean that it was acceptable. Trump campaign members welcomed foreign influence into our election and then compromised themselves with the Russian government by covering it up.

            Mueller found other collusions between Trump and the Russians, none of which could prove conspiracy. Trump freely shares Midwestern polling data in States he ultimately won, many being upsets. Team Trump also had numerous chats with the Russian ambassador attempting influence response to US sanctions. There was also Team Trump Wikileaks conversations after it was known they had stolen emails from the Russians.

            Not able to take to court does not make this shit smell good. Larry can not polish that turd.

            Trump lies. Team Trump lies. His own campaign manager received hundreds of millions to install a Russian puppet as the leader of Ukraine. He, in turn, raped the tax coffers to lead an over-the-top lifestyle before the Ukrainians forced him to flee to Mother Russia. About the lies, Mueller stated: “given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.”

            The lies and obstruction obviously hampered the efforts.

            The obstruction points to a Team Trump concern about the legality of their nefarious efforts. Mueller may not have proven conspiracy, but the contacts he uncovered created a Trumpian concern, worthy of breaking the law, given one believes the obstruction evidence, on which the DoJ declined to prosecute for policy/procedure issues over a ongoing campaign/sitting President. The Stormy Daniels version of this has been re-ignited by New York where Cohen was found guilty, convicted, and Trump is described as “Individual-1,” the unindicted co-conspirator.

          • larry Horist

            Frank Stetson … Sorry, It is YOU who are fatally confused. There are TWO issues. One was weather Trump conspired with Russia in meddling in the 2016 election. Mueller was very very clear on that point. No … he did not. Nor did any other American. Then there was the issue of obstruction of justice, which Mueller punted to the Department of Justice to make a final extermination. Mueller offered possible areas of obstruction, but gave no conclusion. That is where the controversy rages — and where all the points your raise arise. You are rebutting the wrong information with the wrong facts. Bass turned the matter over to the DOJ’s integrity unit and they recommend no prosecution — that the evidence was not sufficient to win a conviction. Barr followed their recommendation. Of course, you can opine that it was Barr who made the decision and used them for cover — but that is speculation, period. But you cannot honestly speculate on the issue of conspiring with Russia. When you do that, you are lying. And you should be able to intellectually discern the two very separate issues and not mix-and-match..

        • Tom

          Yes I agree with you on that Russia gate conspiracy theory hatched by the Hillary crowd. They, Mueller, Schiff, Hillary, and all involved should be prosecuted!!! I have never said the Dems are innocents. I also think all of those that were involved in stoking the 1/6 insurrection party should be prosecuted as well, and that includes Trump. Fair is fair. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!

  3. Tom

    Larry, you made the statement, “There’s another definition for many people. It refers to the belief in the existence of a sinister cabal of powerful people who are manipulating the events for their own benefit – for power and profit. Oddly, they are best known by folks sitting in front of their computers browsing through the Internet’s dark corners – the birthplace of conspiracy theories. There is little validity to the theories, but they do impact on political discourse. In the extreme, it is the politics of paranoia.” THE EXTREME RIGHT OF GOP LIKE MTG (Margorie Taylor Green), ELECTION DENIERS, and extremists within the GOP are the ones doing this!!!

    I agree with much of your article with regard to the events in world history that changed the existing world order. But I do not agree with your statement that FDR created a new world socialist order. (Nice swipe at FDR and Dems though, you still have that burr in your saddle, huh?) I would say he significantly impacted the existing world order that came out of WWI, and certainly did liberalize our government, but so to was Hitler responsible for some of this changed world order. Hitler tried to change the world order to German-centric but failed. He may not have won the war, but he did change the world order – and the change benefited democracy. Many maps were redrawn after WWII. But many of the agreements and policies you mentioned remained the same. What also remained the same and is key (but you did not mention this) was the world financial system remained pretty much the same with the US Dollar being the referent currency.

    I think right now there is a serious challenge to the existing world order and what the anti-US factions call “American hegemony”. That challenge is coming from China and the U.S.S.R. (and I use the U.S.S.R. term because that is what Putin is going back to). For at least 10-20 years now, China and Russia have been trying to get the world off of the US Dollar and institute a different currency backed by Russia and China. I do not see this happening because many investors in the democracies of the world have ample experience with how these two autocracies can swiftly impact capital investment with the blink of a new or changed policy. Recent examples are Xi Jinpings wiping out of the Education Market, IT Market, his new rule about large companies must issue 5% of stock to the CCP and have at least one board member being a CCP official, Real Estate Collapse of EverGrande and his Three Golden Rules policy, and banking issues in China where many citizens, over 50,000 lost their savings due to CCP policy and corruption. China and Russia are using digital currency backed by oil as the new referent currency – but I doubt that this will work for the whole world – the West will stay with the US Dollar, and green energy initiatives will impact the oil currency movement.

    And this is where it gets a bit sticky. Both GOP and Dems have spent like there is no limit, piling up more and more debt. I believe US spending binges in the future by both parties will be a larger threat to world order than China and Russia. What we should be most scared about is that nobody, not any one in the Fed Reserve, or any where else in government knows where that debt breaking point is, and we continue to spend more and more!!! It is like going across a mine field at night, eyes closed, fingers in your ears, and being told you are in a mine field but you keep pressing onward thinking that if you just go a little more you will be out of the mine field! It is insane!!!

    I do think in the next decade or two there is a possibility of a second world order emerging that may be China-centric but China is really screwing up that possibility in many ways! And democracies can stop it by removing companies from China and relocating to smaller states like Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines, India, Australia – to create a strong S.E. Asia and Pacific Rim (something your boy Trump was against!!!) to counter the influence of China. When Trump pulled out of the Pacific Rim agreement to save 184,000 US jobs, he created the vacuum for China to move in and affect millions of jobs worldwide. How stupid was that!!! And right now, as you rightly pointed out, China better sober up and look at the situation very carefully with regard to that partnership with no limits they have with their Russian dog Vlad. Xi’s decisions could impact agreements, policies, and funding to becoming increasingly anti-China. Amazingly, while Xi and Putin both want a new world order, everything they do drives the West back to the existing FDR / US Dollar democracy based world order.

    So do not lose too much sleep over it. If, as you say in this article, WWII was in your lifetime, you will be dead before all of this happens. I predict something big will happen around year 2039 to 2041, which would make you around 100 years old. By then you and I and Frank will all be in the nursing home during what could be painful years of conflict, watching Mayberry RFD, Star Trek, and Hollywood Squares reruns!!!

    • larry Horist

      Tom … The fact that FDR did not create a Soviet or Chinese type of socialism does not mean his policies were not significant steps in that direction. That was recognized at the time by both Republicans and Democrats. If you look at the segregated communities, you see a very socialistic model of government being a major player in the economic game. In fact, the conditions in those communities are a lot like we have seen in the major central planning socialist states — where government is a major source of personal income..

      Regarding the federal governments uncontrolled and reckless spending habits, it lay blame on both parties — although I think Democrats promote more spending without a sense of guilt. They seem to think it is a good thing.

      • Tom

        Yes Larry, I can agree that FDR’s New Deal was steps in a socialist direction, but they were also steps to help 40% of the population out of dire poverty, and that includes the most vulnerable citizens, orphans, widows, elderly for whom the depression affected them disproportionately.

        Anyway, let’s edit that sentence you wrote to read, ” President Franklin Roosevelt enhanced a new world order by introducing significant steps in the direction of the welfare state socialism to the democracy menu

        As are as Dems promoting more spending than the GOP, you have not sold me. Especially after the Trump Tax Cuts that mostly funded the rich. Here is a good article listing debt by president at “https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296”.

        • larry Horist

          Tom … You misrepresent my opinion. I have laid the blame for excessive spending and borrowing on both Democrats AND Republicans. Also, there is a good case to be made — based on statistics — that FDR’s socialist policies were not taking the country out of the Depression. The numbers suggest that it was the start of selling military equipment to France and Britain circa 1940 — before the US entered the war– that kicked off job creation and economic vitality.

      • frank stetson

        “I think Democrats promote more spending without a sense of guilt. They seem to think it is a good thing.”

        Oh man, talk about wishful thinking? It’s like being caught with all the tropes of the 70’s about tax n spend Democrats. Too bad his fairytale just masks his own reluctance to face the truth. Turns out it’s Republicans who spend more, worse yet, they tax less at the same time: can you spell HUGE Deficits…

        Trump OWNS over 25% of the total national debt…. He saddled each of us with $23,500 more in debt. In four years.

        How does Larry reconcile that with his stupid, uneducated, piece of pfm conclusion?

        Larry is right that I, as a Democrat, do like spending. And I have no guilt about it; I revel in it. I enjoy spending whether a day of shopping or cutting down my forest of Ash trees so other non-paying people can enjoy the view I create. In my career, I remember dropping my first million and not even batting an eye. Not my money and worth a shot (9 out 10 times I was right). My Mother saved every penny. Not me. If a bluebird lands, I spend a portion on general principle that there are other bluebirds out there. So every bonus, stock option, special inventive went both in the bank and to some guilty pleasure, but not about the money, about the guilt of having too much fun!

        Point is, unlike Republicans, I, and most Democrats love spending when it turns a profit — that’s the best spending. And I profited every time even if I spent because, thus far, I invested wisely. The same can be done with government.

        Obama’s Solar spending: one of a few Federal programs that turned a profit. Now that’s some good spending. Remember, it’s not the design of the government to profit, so when it does, that’s some good planning.

        TARP turned a profit while saving the banking and US auto industries to boot.

        On the softer side of statistics, a recent Harvard study shows how welfare turns a profit, especially welfare for the young. Look up A Uni ed Welfare Analysis of Government Policies Nathaniel Hendren and Ben Sprung-Keyser from February 2020. “In many cases, these policies actually pay for themselves in the long-run. Children pay back the initial cost as adults through additional tax revenue and reduced transfer payments.”

        Generally, government programs that advantage kids pay off.

        Obviously, the Government has never lost money on Social Security; the profit is realized by older folks spending more too. Not only that, but Social Security is the largest protector of our US debt owning about 10% of it, and receiving profit for doing so.

        Sadly, I can not say the same for Medicare, Johnson fucked up the funding for that one and we pay and pay and…
        But I can go on with profitable programs, mostly soft profits like kids being better taxpayers if we fund them, but some really hard like the Solar investment, investing in banks, investing in auto industry. Not all, not many, but there are profit makers in a business, the Federal Government, which is not designed for profit, not even break even.

        The next study says it all: “My interpretation is that Republicans are keen to cut taxes, but they aren’t as successful at cutting spending.”

        *https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7*

        We are all pigs, but it is brutally clear who is the Queen of the Pigs: Republicans like Larry.

        Reagan is dead, Trump is a candidate for 2024 Presidency. It’s a legacy of wasteful spending.

        They spend more, make less, and cut taxes on the rich and big business. And then they drag out tropes from the 70’s to blame Democrats while they turn out more spending on stupid programs. What’s next: the Transgender Police Force to arrest all Drag Queens that dare to be in public? What will that cost? The Trump Space Mistake has cost between 15B to 23B every year. Only a Republican rocket scientist could dream that spending up.

        Wake up Larry: it’s 2023 and time you put on some big boy pants and face the truth.

        ““I think Democrats promote more spending without a sense of guilt. They seem to think it is a good thing.”
        He thinks it, he does not know it apparently.
        He projects they have no sense of spending guilt; he does not know apparently.
        He seems to think they think it a good thing; he does not know apparently

        When you assume….sure fits the bill on tis one.

        • larry Horist

          Frank Stetson …. LOL Another long screed pretending to be an intelligent counterpoint to my position. I have been critical of both Democrat AND republican spending habit. You just created another phony straw man argument that you can affix to the Larry Horist of you imagination. Not sure if it is intentional, or you have a reading comprehension problem.

          • frank stetson

            Screed. Again. How about some variety at least. I will see your “screed” and raise you on your merits of your piece of pontifical dogma.

            You constantly and consistently say to me, and others: “You just created another phony straw man argument that you can affix to the Larry Horist of you imagination. Not sure if it is intentional, or you have a reading comprehension problem.”

            I guess those were not your quotes in my screed; I must have got them wrong….

            A great editor once advised me that the conclusions reached by the reader are owned by the writer. IOW — if they misunderstood your meaning, your meaning is what’s the issue. Re-write!

            Of course, you toss the word “strawman” as a generality without specifics and so it’s impossible to offer rebuttal to something that does not exist.

            Your big bug: ” I have been critical of both Democrat AND republican spending habit.” Who cares. I was talking Republicans and Larry only as one of these heavy spenders on top of heavy tax cuts leading to the HUGEST deficit on his guy’s watch. A guy he voted for twice (but not in the first primaries).

            Sigh.

            Try issues, not personalities. Use specifics, not generalities.

  4. frank stetson

    Gets kinda creepy to talk NWO while showing a Masonic image to start the conspiracy theories rolling….. :>)

    IMO, very interesting piece, your mind works in very strange ways, I like. Don’t get mad again, comments here are really not criticism, just comments. I see this as a puff piece, fun, thought provoking, but if not 100% accurate, who cares, it is good enough for government work. All comments can be cured via wordsmithing or perhaps reframing it as N-W-O from a US-centric perspective. Same result: fun piece!

    Biggest comment: seems to be US focused, might be seen a bit arrogant that we are the World’s center, don’t think it’s your intent. Some examples:

    A new world order post-Civil War seems US-focused given more slaves in the world today than in 1865. Maybe 10% more. The Civil War changed America, not sure the world except maybe in the arts of war, including medicine.

    Colonization also seems US focused since globally the practice extends maybe as far as WWII when giant blocks of colonies became countries. We may have been the shining light on the hill, but plenty darkness where nothing changed.

    The new deal, again, seems US focused in that the ROW was already heading there if not already there. A first step in creating
    organized social welfare programs was enactment of the Elizabethan Poor Law of 1601. More history here:
    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare*

    China – again, from our perspective maybe. Nixon’s China: 1972. However, China may disagree with that NOW breakpoint given they tied us in the Korean War in the 1950’s. On the economic front, in 1978, China’s GDP = $149.54B with only 1.75% global share. Worse yet, with almost 1B people, that’s suck productivity. At that time, US = 222M people, GDP = $2.35 trillion. However, China overtook Japan in 2010, a mere 40 years after Nixon did China. Here’s a really cool animated chart showing it:

    *https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/how-much-chinas-economy-has-grown-over-the-last-70-years.html*

    In looking at world wealth, the attached WIKI chart can help explain what’s goin on. First, the US rules; with that one can imagine many feel that we take more than we deserve and almost every deal goes in our favor. True or not, it’s human nature. Not that amazing that 50 States working as one economic force do better than 50 individual countries.

    With that in mind, the world wealth chart easily explains the EU, perhaps only as the mechanism against an unfair US economic advantage – size. It also clearly shows how Asia-Pacific (including China), Latin America, and Africa don’t stand a chance, too small, too much distance between GDP’s — very tough row to hoe to catch us. China is the only possibility and, really, they probably can’t do it without an economic “partnership” like the EU. Fucking with Taiwan does not bring partners to the table either.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_wealth*

    IMO, the only way to catch us is
    1) we screw up in a cataclysmic fashion, NBL.
    2) more group dynamics like the EU leveling the playing field. Given Nation’s instinctive desire to be national, and for individuals/groups to retain national power within, that’s tough too.

    IMO, not to worry, we have a few more decades at least….. I would be more worried about our national debt and deficits — that can be a cataclysmic sea change breakage, and we won’t see it coming, it will just be here. We passed the warning light during Obama and obliterated it during Trump. Biden is reducing the increase but more debt is more danger. The canary in the coal mine isn’t dead, but it’s wheezing.

    Good story Larry, very interesting perspective, no need to respond, just some perspective, no right or wrong. It was just fun.

    • Tom

      I agree Frank, it was a fun post, nothing to get knickers twisted over. And yes, right now I also think national debt is our biggest problem and the most likely way to force a NWO if we keep spending more and more. Always nice getting a feel good piece after a rough Black History Month’s worth of posts! 🙂

  5. Darren

    Biden is the BEST President ever. We are all better off today. The Lap top does not include Pres Biden. What is happening in Arizona right now must be fake. Drugs do not cross our border. helping Ukraine is not a Biden pay off.
    Now I hope you two feel better. Facts right!

    • Ac

      Frank,
      Time and time again, Larry objects like (R)Senator from Texas who says DON’’T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS. We learned early on that Trump’s conservative Republicanism is founded on alternate facts in an alternate reality’s state of mind. Do, it is for the political right wing fabricating a set of facts protested to be true historically, logically, and indisputably.
      Then, if you will, consider the wisdom of the ages proven over and over. It has to do with new ideas ( truth in facts, if inconvenient, still true) aka tricks lacking uptake in the age challenged population segment.
      The story is that no amount of trial will change a mature long in the tooth blood hound that new tricks are anything but wrong. It’s biblical, old wine skins and new wine, new wine in old wine skins causes negative consequences. Bursting of the skins and wine lost.
      Probably, the overseer of PBP, Master Joe pontificated that it matters not if an opinion, his, is thought to be true, more importantly in all he writes , he is always right.
      So it is with PBP and the so called conservative right, Always and unequivocally right. And, isn’t that a most ironic coincidence that the right wing doctrine is right and correct in all.
      As Trump goes, so does the Republican Party. The same with CPAC of late. Trump and conservative co-conspirators inundated, high jacked, commandeered , and stole the conventions annual conference. True, not all contenders showed up and gave credence to Trump and Company. But, CPAC meeting showcased the biggest and brightest stars and up and coming leaders in the GOP. What an indictment of the parties future in the run up to 2024.
      The political agnostic in me groans in despair as both parties flounder adamantly standing in opposition based on principle. Then, when they have the football and have opportunity to st least advance the ball it’s fumbled over and over. The red team has no playbook and is poorly coached. The blue team has trouble communicating in the huddle and over the.implementation of their plan .
      The red team fails the athleticism, talent, and character strength for competition at the game’s top level, Our guys on the blue team are in at building year. 2024 will be the test.
      But. If the US holds onto its place in the “world order” red and blue must learn how they will work together for the country as a whole, while appreciating each other’s differences the commitment they swear to uphold with the oath is honored.
      Larry, how well is your brand working, practically. In the lives of all your fellow Americans. Everyone a human being deserving dignity, respect, equal consideration under law the same.
      Beating the drum loudly is but for self satisfaction and for the few followers taking up your cadence marching in lock step while in place.
      Larry. CPAC’s initial beginnings came about with guidance by you and other of your conservative cohorts. Through time the ides grew, It became a news worthy gathering with keynote speakers listen to by the right. Now, after this last one attendees substituted T for C Trump instead of Conservative will CPAC survive while Trump and Trumpism continues it influence?
      From an apolitical perspective the facts ignored or left out of learned conversation are central and controlling for this nations survival. The US becomes bested in strength, militarily., economically. technically, and in any other way the nation will fall altogether. The American pride based psyche will sustain anything less than the best.
      Now that’s grandfatherly, thank you very kindly. Humbly I submit this all.

  6. 9mm

    It’s truly not hard to see we are sliding down the worlds control in freedoms when you have a political party that pushing socialism and presenting us with a old president we knew that had dementia and would be controlled by a closet ex president. We the American-people let our selves get scammed with news from the same group yet we, 40 some % seem to think this loon of a president is doing a good job. Now really are these the newest of the dementia cheering gang? Sad but this word thru socialist Devilrats has been kicked to the curb this word Patriots to our country is now nearly forgotten outsiders and many insiders have seen to it that it’s now become political nasty.

    • frank stetson

      Wow, somebody send this asshole gunnie to school to learn how to speak and write. I mean, I’m bad but this guy makes me look good.

      ” the worlds control in freedoms.” what does that even mean?
      or how about:
      ” Sad but this word thru socialist Devilrats has been kicked to the curb this word Patriots to our country is now nearly forgotten outsiders and many insiders have seen to it……” Here’s a buck. Buy some comma’s.

      1. No one has proven Biden has dementia. Reagan didn’t have oldtimers either, at least it can’t be proven.
      2. “Socialist Devilrats” have fought for YOUR freedom in every war, dumbass.
      3. He’s three years older than Turnip, idiot.
      4. controlled by a closet ex President? who or wtf is that even?

      Finally, WTH does this have to do with Larry’s piece? Zip, just like your IQ. Sorry, but at least learn some English before you blow you gasket here. Yes, it’s free speech protected, but at least make in intelligible speech.

      • Tom

        Frank, this is just a guess about his statement, “4. controlled by a closet ex President? who or wtf is that even?”. There was an article that came out on an online publication called “Conservative Alerts” that was all about how Obama is behind the scenes controlling Biden. It stated that Biden has dementia and that the real POTUS right now is Obama.

        This is another one of those “conspiracy theorists” that Larry spoke of in this article. Others seem to be Grace Bruno and JCAT. More puppies in the loon pound. 🙂

      • Tom

        Frank, here is an article I caught today. This is the type of article 9mm (is that a gun, IQ quotient, or erection size?) is probably reading. The source of this article is actually News Max. This article says Susan Rice is calling the Biden shots. See article at “https://thebeltwayreport.com/2022/11/ric-grenell-reveals-who-is-acting-as-shadow-president-for-weak-biden-this-is-not-good/?utm_source=Beltway%20Newsletter%201&utm_medium=email&utm_content=subscriber_id:51469575&utm_campaign=Ric%20Grenell%20Reveals%20Who%20Is%20Acting%20As%20%E2%80%98Shadow%20President%E2%80%99%20for%20%E2%80%98Weak%E2%80%99%20Biden%20(Duplicate%20%232)”

        A previous one I read stated Obama was calling the Biden shots. It’s all loon bait!

  7. larry Horist

    Darren … you may be the only person in America who thinks drugs do not cross our border.

  8. Kathy Atherton

    Thank you for your explanation of the world order. I had no idea what that term meant, and it is helpful to have a definition. It is interesting to think about how events can change the world order and what might be involved in creating a new world order.

  9. Ac

    Larry,
    Thanks, I’ll file it as human intelligence (HI) under the heading of Good To Know (GTK).
    Although, in this instance your information falls in the Other Opinions R Bias (OORB) where most R lost to oblivion.
    BTW IMO the battle to take the high ground against your worthy opponents is lost. The debate may carry on, but the argument has been successful made by the opposing team captained by Frank.
    An old brickwork wall can not hold when it’s mortar cracks, bricks split, and crown is falling away.
    An intractable unteachable unbending will you would attack in others arguing that others lack all you pride yourself on possessing true knowledge and complete understand of, Experts in fields you have self taught knowledge in. Time scanning cable news, msn offerings, conservative network programming , along with several well known news commentary writers’ opinion . Gleaning without including context, cherry picking stories about the opposition party with an assumption PBP readers will.buy bias hook, line, and sinker. Sadly, rare are there critical thinkers on the right who would challenge your suppositions of they were.
    Oh, best to you on your ride with AI as your guide. Info on line is imperfectly inputted by humans for humans, and therefore bias listing right and left. Employing AI for compiling research and submitting a summation still amounts to crap in spits crap back at ya.
    Intelligence does not equal intelligence. Artificial, what is that? It’s not the real thing. Intelligence agencies gather “intel”, valuable information about our adversaries. Ultimately, intelligent human beings use intelligence received and make decisions carrying causation that impacts us all
    IMO arrogant put downs on PBP by those who own it content and responsibility for readers who voluntarily access the page are unwarranted, inhumane, disrespectful to all readers, in violation of primary democratic principles, bad ethics, and more. Most readers could add to the list. It becomes another cost to benefit analysis in a world of media choices.
    Maybe, it is for entertainment value, because watching wheels flying off partisan politic’s band wagon is reassuring evidence that objective truth void of bias prejudice and implicit malice is the one remedy for our ailing society.
    Sad that individuals self identifying as intelligent, informed, mature, and adult are the opposite of sane when political opinions rule and rile people into opposing tribes , them and us.
    Questions rise in an otherwise calm setting; at work, shopping, social activity, in church, at school, and anywhere we find ourselves. If some one drops the politics atomic bomb, the result is sure upheaval among those present.
    One way opinion domination has not once proved positive. Equal treatment extended to all, meaning all, us and them divisions dissolve.

  10. frank stetson

    AC: I have to decaffeinate before I read your heady stuff. Thought provoking. Thanks for the kudos, I appreciate you not saying “he’s won!” because I haven’t. I value Larry’s opinion and just keep searching for the truth. I do not value his low brow name calling which only demeans him, as you have noted.

    I am saddened that he can not often express his thoughts or support his opinions with facts and continues to sally forth with vapid unsupportable conclusions while devolving the debate into a name calling festival he pretends is humor. It is funny to watch him attempt to find an emotional crack, stick his knife in, and twist. Debate 101 — his current knife is the word “screed.” Sorry Larry, I was raised on this shit, my Father was a crack debater at one of the finest colleges in America. And he practiced at home…. You wouldn’t be doing it, old man, if I was not so well versed in the art making you dive into the name calling gutter.

    I am a liberal, but just left of center. A Clintonian Democrat, I am more liberal on social issues, and to the right of Larry on financial issues. I am here to express my view, not some liberal dogma. If they coincide, so be it. And I am certainly not a Democratic Socialist. Actually more redneck than elitist although I do hail, at times, from the great Northeast. I even lived in North East which is northwest of everywhere and southeast from somewhere, but that’s another story……

    But, I am here to express my view, and yes, I am a junk yard dog when it comes to posting, but again, it’s more training than anything. I managed the budget of a large laboratory of engineers and scientists, with my Marketing/Finance MBA and they thought themselves marketeers and wanted to do what they thought was right. So, I spent a work lifetime debating market issues and corporate responses with them, sometimes at manpower odds of 50:1. I had to learn to think fast and type fast just to keep up on emails :>). Even if I demanded a point person, there would just be 49 others behind them. So, here I am, on my pc for retirement work, and taking breaks to cross verbal swords on PBP. And lately, given the market, I have lots of time outs. Not to mention it’s winter.

    Larry is the only one on PBP that puts together interesting pieces based on original research tempered by age-old conservatism. It’s just seems that he’s been touched by Trump, perhaps after being a Republican loser since Reagan, but seemingly enjoying being on top again and willing to sell his conservative soul to do remain there He accepts Trump the person, perhaps squinting his eyes, but he accepts and that empowers all sorts of bad results when it comes to supporting his view of the world which has become Trumpian, by association alone —- perhaps even his new found types of “humor.”

    Enough whining, thanks again, and on with the show!!!!

    And no Larry, this is not a SCREED, but you can call it one if it makes you feel better :>)

    • larry Horist

      Frank Stetson … On a different thread, I said I will meet your desire to make this a loooong ongoing personal bickersome debate. Re-read your postings and look how much is about ME as opposed to the issues. That is the obsession. The prolonged personal exchange is not productive.

  11. frank stetson

    larry Horist…. What thread, have you met your desire to fulfill to fulfill my supposed desire to get personal? Don’t think I will re-read anything, but thanks for the suggestion. As far as being productive, focus on this issues, have facts as our friends, ball is in your court.