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McMillan: The Left’s effort to destroy people’s Livelihoods -the police must stand down and the citizens must stand down.

McMillan: The Left’s effort to destroy people’s Livelihoods -the police must stand down and the citizens must stand down.

The Punching Bag Post introduces George McMillan as a guest commentator. He is an analyst, a military contractor and researcher into political, economic and social frameworks.

Many in alternative media have already discussed how the Kyle Rittenhouse case put the Second Amendment “right to keep and bear arms” and the “right to self-defense” on trial.

If one looks at the 47-minute mark of Prosecutor Binger’s closing argument in the link above there is even a deeper issue in this case.

At the 47 minute mark, Binger begins to downplay the intense property destruction that occurred over the previous two days of protesting and rioting that occurred in general in Kenosha after the shooting of Jacob Blake, and the specifically wished to downplay the destructiveness of Joseph Rosenbaum that night.

Rosenbaum’s aggressive behavior was recorded by Drew Hernandez and other independent journalists as cited by Binger in his closing argument.

In this segment, it becomes increasingly clear that the prosecutor not only wanted to reduce gun and self-defense rights but wished to diminish the right of people to protect their property and therefore their livelihoods that supports their lives.

The issue of the police standing down and letting the protestors and rioters loot and destroy after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis on May 25th, 2020 went on continuously for the entire 2020 election cycle and now seems to occur with any officer-involved shooting regardless of the facts and circumstances, even if they are captured on video.

If one watches the video at the 47-minute mark, Binger goes through Rosenbaum’s pushing over a “porta-potty” without the regard of whether anyone was it in or not, setting fire to a dumpster and pushing it toward police vehicles, and setting fire to a trailer and using the items to obstruct the path of law enforcement to intervene in the rioting and swinging a chain at people.

In the context of the Antifa/BLM rioting over the past 18 months, the message has become increasingly clear as the police are told to stand down and let the rioters loot and destroy in the name of improving equity, if private citizens band together to protect their property and livelihoods in their own communities, then they will be prosecuted.

People simply have to stand by and be defenseless and helpless as the government destroys local business with the COVID lockdowns in favor of the giant online retailers, and while the mobs are destroying their property and the businesses private citizens are forbidden to form neighborhood watch groups to protect their communities while the police are being neutered and defunded.

This chain of events over the past year was encouraged by the media to specifically create havoc to destroy the Trump economy in order to remove Trump from office. It is this chain of events that needs to be placed into the History of Political Philosophy and Leftist Revolutions so people will understand where this movement is coming from, where it is going, and what stage we are in.

Ever since Jean Jacque Rousseau in his Essay on the Origin of Inequality (1763) attributed the inequality among men to the creation of property rights where landowners can subjugate other men, and the inequality among men and women to marital rites where men can subjugate, the effort of the Left has been to abolish both property rights, marriage rites, and the nuclear family as explained in detail in Engels The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State (1884).

In these works, it is argued that since the Ten Commandments state “thou shalt not steal” and “thou shalt not commit adultery,” it is the Abrahamic religions that have created both property rites and marital rites and therefore are the basis of inequality among classes and genders.

The objective of the Left since the writings of Rousseau during the French Revolution was to replace the Christian Monarchies with Atheistic Socialism, and with the radicalization of Rousseau by Marx and Engels extended the goals of the Left to replace Protestant Capitalism with Atheistic Communism. Let it be clear, that this is the goal of the Left in incremental Fabian Socialist theory that has become increasingly popular in Western Law Schools as the 1960s liberals began taking over the department chairs in the 1970s.   

The United States is at the stage where the Left has enough critical mass in enough key institutions to attempt to abolish First Amendment freedom of political speech to the mass censorship that is occurring in the University System and social media, as well as the attempt to abolish Second Amendment firearm ownership by private citizens, the Fourth Amendment Rights to be secure in their persons, houses, and properties.

This trial was about abolishing the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments that allow people to protect their livelihoods. Since the start of the COVID pandemic, people’s livelihoods have been assaulted by overzealous lockdowns and seemingly persistent downtown riots all encouraged by the mass media.

And now the Left-leaning prosecutors have made it clear that if anyone stands in the way of the rioting mobs in their effort to loot and destroy that they will be arrested, jailed, and prosecuted in jurisdictions under their prosecutorial and judgeship control, and possibly face Federal intervention into states which they do not control. If they cannot destroy your livelihood, then they will bankrupt you in legal fees.  

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52 Comments

  1. Dan Tyree

    No looters are identified as criminals by the left. Don’t start it but be ready to finish it. Property now, our lives later The bastards have blood in their eyes and they aren’t finished yet

    Reply
  2. Ben

    I can’t imagine allowing my teenagers to be in a position kill someone over some else’s property.

    Vigilantism is not the answer to the problems we face as a society. We lived through this for the first 200 years or so in this country. And agreed that the that trained adults should handle the justice system, not radicalized children with high powered guns.
    Even at this, the trained adults often get it wrong, how could you ever expect a child with no training to get it right?

    Keep licking the boots of the thin blue line, arming children, and encouraging vigilantism, and you’re going to find the problems grow, not subside.

    Reply
    • Joe Gilbertson

      Your post reminds me of a time in my life long ago. You apparently have never lived in a close knit community. In 1974, a tornado came through our farm and basically wiped out operations. Two very large barns and some other buildings were collapsed, trapping animals, destroying equipment, a decade of growth completely lost. That night we had over 200 of our neighbors show up to help us dig out, coming from far and wide. They spent most of the night working to at least give us a head start. We didn’t have to call them, they just showed up, bringing whatever equipment or expertise or simple strength that they had.

      In that environment, where neighbors look out for neighbors, it is easily conceivable that neighbors would help protect their neighbors defend their livelihoods. The occasion never arose that I know of, but then again we didn’t have idiot losers openly destroying property (yes, we had idiot losers, but they had the decency to not do stuff in broad daylight…).

      As for the “child” aspect, in our world back then, a family was a family, each member did what he was able. I don’t remember when I first started working on the farm, but I know it was before I was 12 years old. Basically I followed my dad around until he gave me a job to do. That was the morality then, you were closer to being one of the “men” if you did your part.

      I agree that vigilantism is a bad thing. It means that other factors have broken down. But when the system breaks down, there is no one left to defend it except us patriots. If you want, you can sit in your living room and wait for “trained adults” handling the justice system, but when the rioters come to your doorstep and the police have abandoned their posts like in Portland, then … well.. you’ll be dead – having done nothing. Some of us are made of sterner stuff.

      Reply
      • Ben

        Dang, you had people from out of state come help you? That’s amazing!

        Not only do I live in a great community where we would lend a helping hand, but the men I work with also would drop everything to help if a tragedy were to occur.

        That being said, I’m still not putting my teenagers in a position to kill over some used cars, especially when the owners of said cars didn’t ask me to protect those used cars. Lives are more important than property. Nothing is going to change my mind on that. I make those decisions for a living, risk a lot to save a lot… but I’m not risking anything to save a car lot.

        I know my teens have been taught to avoid confrontation at all cost. Nothing good can come from inserting yourself in a situation that you aren’t mature enough to handle.

        I am glad that the young man did make it clear that he supports Black Lives Matter on National TV.

        Reply
        • Joe Gilbertson

          Kyle Rittenhouse was a resident of Antioch, Illinois, about 20 miles from Kenosha by road. And yes, we had people come in from that far, and more. And that is the beauty of being a member of a community and a patriot. We are there, you don’t have to ask.

          Wow! Avoid confrontation at all costs? I guess if you want to raise cowardly, unaware teenagers who don’t give a crap about the people around them, go ahead. But don’t expect them to be successful if they won’t stand up for themselves.

          And remember you said “Lives are more important than property” when the looters (or the socialists that you voted for…) come to take your property and leave you with nothing.

          Reply
          • frank stetson

            Joe: maybe they should just buy some business insurance, sit home, save lives, replace property, be happy. That’s how I protect my property and stupid 17-year old crybabies.

            I am sorry, I do understand what you say that people should be able to protect their stuff. But, at the same time, I would hope you could appreciate that sending in kids from miles around, unstable kids whose mothers drive them to a gunfight to protect a stranger’s car lot, does not seem like a great idea given the police were there, the national guard was there, and the result that no police killed anyone, no national guard killed anyone, only the 17-year old, whose mom drove him to his ar-15, body armor and full metal jackets, killed two people, blew the arm off a third, in two separate, yet linked actions.

            All those people with guns and only the 17-year old who couldn’t even drive himself there was putting multiple people down. He wasn’t even protecting the property he thought himself assigned to; the police wouldn’t let him back. He was just a gunslinger in search of a new job roaming the streets looking for action.

            There’s something wrong with Wisconsin, this township, this city; this never should have been able to happen. Even the gun charges should have stuck, would have stuck in most states except Wisconsin. You did not present these types of danger when you rebuilt your farm. You didn’t overtly send 17 year old’s into harm’s way. It’s apples and oranges.

            The jury has spoken, it was Wisconsin self defense, and now they can live with it. Wisconsin — the Vigilante State. Urban Unrest — bring your guns, your body armor, you vehicles, your children, we provide the rest. Protect us and we will set you free!

            He may be free, his life is ruined, you know he’s not getting emotional support for this ptsd, the jury has spoken, the law is the law, but man —- there is something wrong when a 17 year old crybaby has a shooting spree with an assault rifle and people applaud it as right and just.

            “Please Sir, can I have some more?” Wisconsin is welcome to it.

          • Ben

            Joe,
            My adult children are very successful, I have no reason to think the younger two won’t be equally successful. They are not cowards, but they are intelligent enough to avoid willfully putting themselves into a situation that may lead to murder charges. They advocate for themselves and others.. without the threat of violence.

            Yes, lives are more important than property. I have insurance and things can be replaced. Lives, and the damage done by murdering someone, can not be.

            You can Keep calling yourself a Patriot, it doesn’t make it so.

          • Joe Gilbertson

            Frank, you say “I do understand what you say that people should be able to protect their stuff” What is your address, I’ll come over and take your stuff.

            And yes, there was something wrong in Wisconsin, they allowed riots from BLM types to run rampant.

        • Joe Gilbertson

          You have insurance???? Guess what, the insurance companies will not insure your crap if you are not taking reasonable measures to take care of it.

          I’m assuming you understand how insurance works right? If you want to insure something valuable in an area that is likely to be robbed, they will likely require you to have a security guard. The insurance people are not fairy godmothers and they are not socialists support by the government.

          I’m sure your children are lovely people. But based on what you said about them, please tell me where they live so I can take their stuff!

          Reply
          • Ben

            Joe, you should have quit when you were behind.

            I’m glad we’ve moved on from the facts of the case, a child should not have been put in a situation to make decisions that he was ill equipped to make.

            To let me know where you live so I can steal your shit. this is the level of discourse I expect from the right.
            Yes, my kids are lovely, and successful. They have insurance and know how it works. I have no doubt that the capitalistic leaches that insure us will try to not pay, but I’ll be damned if I kill someone over someone else’s shit.

            Look me up, I’m not hard to find. If you do choose to steal my stuff, I assure you that you will be alive when it’s all over. You won’t be happy , but you’ll be alive.

          • Joseph S. Bruder

            Insurance companies will tell shop owners that if they’re threatened, just give them the money. Banks do the same thing. No amount of money or property is worth the loss of life. And I doubt that they would consider a random armed 17-year old vigilante from a town 30 miles away a “security guard”. If anything, that’s a bigger liability for the owner and the insurance company than having nothing at all. If they require a security guard, it’s in the contract before the fact. They can’t just say – “hey, there might be a riot tomorrow night, get a guard or you’re on your own”.

            Insurance companies deal in risk, and if you’re insured, you’re paying for that risk. Insurance companies NEVER lose money, they’re like casinos (Trump’s casinos not withstanding). Insurance companies will usually happily pay for property damage, as it’s often good publicity. If they think the risk of property damage is high, they either charge more or they put a notice in the contract like “not responsible for riots and looting”.

    • kerry l appleton

      ben,, you can belly up if you wan`t but i will defend my rights as an american patriot,go ahead sit on the side lines ,,,let us patriots take care of of these commie bastards,,,no one ask your teenagers to help anyone,,,stay home and stay out of the way.

      Reply
      • Dan Tyree

        Kerry the leftist idiots don’t understand the concept of protecting their communities.

        Reply
        • Ben

          Dan, I protect my community for a living. I have served to protected my Nation. My neighbors know they can depend on me to aid them in their time of need.

          Not once have I carried a gun, or had to come close to murder. You continue to be the keyboard warrior you are, and I will contribute positively contribute to my community.

          Reply
      • Ben

        Kerry, I have no problem letting Patriots take care of business… so what will you be doing while they are?

        That’s a good point about no one asked my teenagers to help anyone…. Just as no one asked Kyle to help. If he would have taken your suggestion and stayed home and stayed out of the way, he wouldn’t be in the position of adult internet warriors dreaming about being him.

        Reply
        • Harold blankenship

          What about your Muslim daughter in law?

          Reply
          • frank stetson

            What about your Muslin Hoods n Sheets?

          • Ben

            Blank ,
            What about her?

            I love that Larry gives you racist fucks free reign to show the world exactly what republican voters are.

    • Larry kuhn

      Mr. Rittenhouse didn’t kill over someone else’s property. He was attacked. And it’s interesting that you morons on this site don’t mention the career criminal that ran through the Christmas parade. I would suppose that since he’s a darkie. That he had a right to get whitey. Does the end justify the means. When they set fire to buildings they have no regard for anyone else who might be inside. When you commie morons post your bullshit you are only riling people up. So know this. If they ever come for me or mine I’ll take as many of them with me as possible. Or go down trying. I don’t bother anyone and I require the same from others. And your kids are probably too chicken shit to take a stand unless they are part of a mob.

      Reply
      • Ben

        Larry, I think you may have spelled your last name incorrectly.. isn’t it Larry KKKuhn?

        Reply
        • Larry kuhn

          KKK ? I’ve never met a KKK person as far as I know. There’s not many of them left. And I totally would want nothing to do with them. By the way, your party founded that crowd. And the darling of the democrat party? Robert Byrd, was a recruiter for the klan. When he died Bill Clinton and other democrats spoke about him like he was a saint. And beckley West Virginia has a road still named for him. And your party had to be dragged kicking and screaming to pass civil rights laws. So stfu you hypocrite asshole

          Reply
          • Ben

            Democrats founded the KKK? More like conservatives founded the Kkk. Progressives fought against them. I am a progressive… and you are a conservative. Sooo… you are more closely aligned to the founding of the Kkk than I.

            Call it what you want, I want to continue to move forward and change the way the world thinks so that we don’t have to confront those around us that have the ignorance to think, let alone type words like “darkie”.

            I am no hypocrite. My beliefs square firmly with progressive heritage. And yours obviously line up pretty much with the conservatives of yesteryear.

            And my 4 children will have more children, conservatives are all ready out numbered, their base is dying off of old age, hopefully by the time the kids are my age, we have rid the Country of backward thinking voters like you and they won’t even have to think about taking a stand against your racist BS.

      • frank stetson

        Is Ben right, are you really part of the KKK? Cuz when you use “darkie,” it sure sounds like you’re a card-carrying white supremacist, a racist, if you will. And totally out of reality. Darkie — where do you hang out: 1950? It’s hard to find people who word things that way, at least hard to find in America. So, KKKomrade, how many rubles do you get for each deliciously decadent diatribe? And did you just call everyone on this site a moron? Drill this in your head: no one condones breaking the law. Everyone who does should face the consequences. All the morons here, as you call us, believe that. Both sides of the aisle. So you get an idea of what all the morons here, both sides of the aisle, think about your racist and demeaning ad hominem rants. Go vent your spleen elsewhere.

        I hate racists. I really hate those guys (Indiana Jones and The Temple of Liberalism First Discovered By Conservatives)

        Reply
        • Larry kuhn

          You and Ben are hilarious with your KKK bullshit. No, the klan wasn’t formed by conservatives. Lies and smear is all y know. What’s progressive? Hand outs and subsidized housing so the blacks will stay on the plantation? I don’t see where your party has done anything to improve anybody’s lives. And I sure as hell don’t apologize for being white. Nobody should be ashamed of who they are as long as they are good people. Black or white And Ben claiming that conservatives dying off is a damned joke. We are raising up an army to protect our freedoms. Don’t doubt me. You people are scared to death of us

          Reply
          • Ben

            Larry KKKuhn,

            Republicans have won ONE popular vote for President in the last 30+ yrs. Republicans did not win an age demographic until plus 55+ yrs of age. That trend will continue.

            What would you need an army for? Are you scared? Because I have no need for an army, because I’m not scared… of you and the Klan or anything else.

            I’m not sure why would feel the need to point out that your not ashamed to be white. It’s a weird thing to type. Nobody said anything to the contrary. Me thinks tho doth protest too much.

      • Joseph S. Bruder

        I’d normally start with “What, are you nuts?”, but you’ve already demonstrated that with your other posts.

        The tragedy at the Christmas parade has nothing to do with Rittenhouse’s case, why should we mention it? It was a domestic disturbance that turned into a tragedy. There wasn’t a protest, there wasn’t a reason for a protest, there was no racial motivation, there were no guns. There was nothing even close to the same circumstances as Kenosha.

        Reply
        • Dan Tyree

          Domestic disturbance? It was a planned act of a heartless bastard. Just like mass shootings. I suppose that the commiecrats will want to ban cars. If, God forbid, some white son of a bitch wipes out a crowd of blacks you idiots would be singing a different tune

          Reply
          • frank stetson

            “Just like mass shootings. I suppose that the commiecrats will want to ban cars. If, God forbid, some white son of a bitch wipes out a crowd of blacks you idiots would be singing a different tune.” Actually, if gun manufacturers stepped up like auto manufacturers, the number of gun deaths may actually improve and go down. Estimates are that the improvements save over 30,000 lives a year, about the same number that get offed by guns.

            Very seldom is an auto used as a weapon, even more so as a mechanism for mass murder. Guns, well we use them wrongly every day. It is the choice for suicide, and the most lethal too. Guns are mostly used for mass murder, it is the weapon of choice. Also the weapon of choice for murder. Cars, not so much so. Matter of fact, hardly ever as a weapon.

            You have no idea how premeditated this was, too early yet. But you can be certain that if your goal is to stop senseless murders, mass murders, then the choice between the car and gun is pretty obvious except to the completely stupid.

            It’s just a point of fact spurred on by your stupid statements. Not suggesting any change to gun laws or the 2nd based on this, I’ve got other real reasons. However, cars are doing quite well in adding more and more safety features every day with the result very obvious for anyone who looks.

          • Joseph S. Bruder

            I agree, the guy is a bastard – but he had a fight with his wife, she called cops, he took off in his car before they got there. I doubt it was planned, it was an act of rage. He killed a handful of people with his car – if it had been premeditated and he had jumped out with a semi-automatic he could have killed dozens.

            Regarding the stupid high school kid who shot a bunch of classmates yesterday, THAT was premeditated. He had 3 clips of 15 bullets and another 7 loose in his pockets. He killed 4 and injured 8 (most with head, neck, and chest shots).

            The father bought the weapon less than a week before the shootings. And the parents were at the school the morning of the shooting to talk about the son’s behavior. The parents (or at least the father) will be likely charged as well.

            So, Dan, how many semitautomatic pistols did you buy for your kids when they were 15 years old? Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do. The father who bought into all the right-wing rhetoric about owning a gun and defending his family has completely destroyed his family’s life.

    • Dan Tyree

      Evidently Kyle Rittenhouse got it right. The jury took over twenty hours and found no wrong. But if a hood rat had shot him and were convicted you would be raising hell about it

      Reply
      • Frank stetson

        Wait, if a hood rat hit crybaby Kyle with a paper bag and got convicted for attempted murder, we would be raising hell about it? Is that the question keeping you up nights? What if a redneck racist did it in the planetarium with a candlestick and was given a yuge presidential pardon by a twice impeached one time wonder before going to trial, would they be raising heaven’s gate for hood rats riding skateboards in southern California? Now that be a puzzler.

        Reply
        • Gary boyd

          Shut up boy

          Reply
          • Frank stetson

            No, you shut up, boyo.

    • Dan Tyree

      Young men killed in Europe and the South Pacific to protect the property and communities of people that they didn’t know. But patriotism means nothing to you. You leftist idiots don’t stop and think about the real possibility of the fires that the hood rats start could spread beyond believe and kill lots of people. You posted before of being a firefighter. What fire department would hire a dumbass like you? You should know better than most people what havoc can result from structural fires. I say use whatever force is necessary to protect our towns.

      Reply
      • Ben

        Dan, as the prosecutor that secured life sentences for the three men that killed Ahmad Avery so eloquently said, “if you go looking for trouble, you’re going to find it. And it’s not going to end the way you fantasize.”

        Funny thing about those fires, nobody was killed by them. The only people killed were killed by a wanna be child warrior with no adult supervision.

        Reply
        • Dan Tyree

          And he did a damned good job. Thanks Kyle. One of them was a child molester

          Reply
      • frank stetson

        So, the protectors of Kenosha are of the stature of The Greatest Generation because they both protect the property and communities of people they don’t know? Wow, what a fractured fairy tale for the Second World War. And why just the South Pacific? And how about Africa? Don’t they count?

        If Kyle is our next Greatest Generation, all I can say is: after France, my Dad never cried, blubbering over his good luck not to be dead or in lockup.

        There is no way on God’s green Earth that Kyle rises to the patriotism shown by The Greatest Generation. When my relatives joined up en masse on 12/7 or the one that was on leave, fixing the ship in San Diego, who steamed out on 12/7 breaking leave, leaving repairs to be done enroot to the battle, they may have been snot-nosed 17-year olds amongst them, but Kyle isn’t even on the radar for the type of patriotism these young men showed. And no, not one that I know said it was about property.

        The fires didn’t spread; I am not sure they have ever spread in all the US civil unrest occurring from 1776 on. I am pretty sure you will find few, if any, cases unless Mrs. O’Leary or her cow was an urban protestor. I had suggested you review history on this, but nooooooo. Why bother with facts.

        I just can’t believe anyone would say Kyle and the Greatest Generation had anything in common.

        Reply
        • Dan Tyree

          Kyle is the perfect picture of patriots

          Reply
          • frank stetson

            Yes, George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, Paul Revere, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Crybaby Kyle. Perfect Patriots all. At least according to some. Need a fifth head for Mt. Rushmore…. A new monument for the mall next to the Lincoln Memorial and the Vietnam Wall, a Kyle place where folks can come, shed a tear, and feel vindicated for their murderous sins.

  3. frank stetson

    “No looters are identified as criminals by the left. Don’t start it but be ready to finish it. Property now, our lives later The bastards have blood in their eyes and they aren’t finished yet”

    Tell me, does this guy sound scared? Does he think because a Car Lot in Kenosha gets torched that they’re coming for his white women next?

    YAKRS

    The “left” and anyone else sees up to 165 people arrested in Kenosha week, these are identified as potential criminals, by everyone. Of those, 60 Kenosha, 60 nearby Wisconsin, 30 Illinois – 6 miles south, 11 from WA/OR, 7 elsewhere. The WA/OR folks were arrested for filling up gas cans as they explained they were food providers and it was for the generators in the back… The other arrests were for everything from curfew violation to looting to arson. I am from the left and identify these as potential criminals.

    But if you think a violent protest means they coming for the racists next, I guess you missed the 60’s. And you certainly didn’t learn history’s lessons then…….or now. How often have violent protests bubbled over into the white community? How often do violent protests basically burn down their own neighborhoods? How many whites versus how many blacks have been killed in violent protests? How many unarmed black versus whites shot by police? And which “bastards with blood in their eyes” are coming for you now? Are you talking the left? Kenosha protestors? All protestors or just Kenosha looters and vandals? Blacks? Which “bastards” do you refer?

    So many, so little time :>)

    Reply
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    • Ben

      Activate.
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  5. frank stetson

    Joe Gilbertson
    “You have insurance???? Guess what, the insurance companies will not insure your crap if you are not taking reasonable measures to take care of it.” Of course I have insurance, don’t you? And you know that Kenosha businesses can’t take reasonable measures?

    “I’m assuming you understand how insurance works right? If you want to insure something valuable in an area that is likely to be robbed, they will likely require you to have a security guard. The insurance people are not fairy godmothers and they are not socialists support by the government.” So you are telling me no business owner in Kenosha has insurance because they chose to open a business in the hood but didn’t realize that insurance would be too high because it’s the hood and they can’t take reasonable measures either. The fact is you don’t have a clue and just guessed that people who open stores in the hood don’t have insurance.

    “I’m sure your children are lovely people. But based on what you said about them, please tell me where they live so I can take their stuff!” I take it you’re mixing threads and responses because if you are fantasying about my lovely kids and stealing their stuff, well, seek help.

    “Frank, you say “I do understand what you say that people should be able to protect their stuff” What is your address, I’ll come over and take your stuff.” OK, let me go slow. I said “I understand that people should be able to protect their stuff.” You said it. I understand it. Now that being true, something being wrong at the same time in Kenosha and Wisconsin, guess what —- both can be simultaneously true. Now that you know I will protect my stuff, do you still want to try to take it?

    “And yes, there was something wrong in Wisconsin, they allowed riots from BLM types to run rampant.” BLM, like antifa, is a distributed organization where it is pretty hard to ascertain whether they are or aren’t. I can’t find if BLM was at this protest, and now way can you tell if ANY of the arrested are BLM, thus pretty hard to tell BLM participated in any of the violence. Certainly, Kyle didn’t shoot BLM.

    Just looking for that which eludes you, facts, I found in the NYT: “In Kenosha, more than 35 small businesses were destroyed, and around 80 were damaged, according to the city’s business association. Almost all are locally owned and many are underinsured or struggling to manage.” OK, so the NYT does not know but cya’s with a “many are underinsured or struggling to manage” OK, the second part may mean they are insured but struggling anyways, so they may not be underinsured. The others are underinsured, but the NYT could not find any “not insured.” And underinsured, in one example, meant the guy didn’t insure his personal property and then used his business as a home warehouse. Yeah, that’s underinsured all right but not a hood or blm problem.

    From an NPR story: “Keye Voigt, a public insurance adjuster, was working inside a salon on 22nd Avenue. He said he’s working for multiple businesses in Kenosha, many of whom he guessed may not reopen. “Covid crushed them. Kenosha’s having its own issues, obviously. With the current state of affairs, a lot of these businesses aren’t going to make it,” he said.” Takeaways include; 1) they had insurance 2) covid crushed them 3) Kenosha has issues…. No exactly went broke, leaving town. More like, last straw, take the money and run.

    “One of Voigt’s clients had been offered just $5000 by the insurance company, he said. Another’s claim had been denied entirely because the insurance company said the fires fell under a policy exemption for acts of terrorism.’ Takeaways; 1) people have insurance 2) this falls under a terrorist exemption? Wonder how much he saved…. But they have insurance.

    The point is you guessed, you exaggerated, you have no source, links, or even an anecdote. And some of your stuff just does not make sense, can not be proved or is a total fantasy like your hang-up with my kids. Gotta love a guy who says “”I’m assuming you understand how insurance works right?” as a prelude to his rant how Kenosha is uninsured which isn’t true, and how blm is to blame for all of this which, is probably not true, certainly you have not presented any proof. And yes, I agree one should be able to protect their stuff, I said do understand what you say. And that means I do understand what you say. I understand.

    Reply
    • Joe Gilbertson

      Frank, I think I got the gist of this. My insurance comment was in response to the other guys saying he had insurance so he didn’t need to defend his property. I wasn’t commenting on Kenosha, since you are right I didn’t have any facts on that. You actually support my argument more than his.

      Reply
      • frank stetson

        Thanks, appreciated. What I learned was that while small business is often under-insured, only those on a shoe string would be uninsured. No bank probably deals with the uninsured, lines of credit, etc; so if your business needed that, you better get insurance. But under-insured, sure, these guys have tight margins, no financial buffers, may not understand it all (I know I could never understand every regulation to be a small businessman, I would end up winging it somewhere in the process), and, of course, they cheat like the guy using his business to store his personal stuff.

        So, I am guessing there’s some level of insurance for most of this unless they are not financially tied to anything, or have a $0 inventory and assets, including a business car, a service-only company like maybe a PI for example.

        None of this says you shouldn’t be able to protect your stuff, I would just question risk and reward given being in an area of civil unrest. I mean if I were a car lot owner, I might move the cars during the second day, this went on for three days. I certainly would never ask a 17-year old to protect my stuff, that’s a liability lawsuit of epic potential waiting to happen.

        That said, Brau is correct that any bigger business have more people, can not ask their people to protect their stuff, so easily say: “we’re insured, let it go.” It’s just that bigger business is different than small business in this regard.

        Bottom line is Kyle can’t spell insurance and that has nothing to do with his or the other pretend-police in Kenosha. To be honest, punk like that crosses my property with an AR-15 and much dialog will ensue followed by either departure or something evil this way comes. Someone made the point earlier —- punk kid running down the street shooting people. Would you stop and ask “hey, are you a good guy? are you defending yourself” Or would you waste the punk shooting the gun and sort it all out later.

        Frankly, this crybaby is lucky to be with us still.

        Bottom line is it’s a racist place with segregated neighborhoods, really bad gun laws, outdated self-defense laws, inequal pay, inequal treatment under the law, and a racist Sherriff so shits gonna happen sure as the sun rises. And if not here, then somewhere else until everyone gets a fair chance at the game.

        Reply
  6. Joseph S. Bruder

    How is it that the “left” destroys people’s livelihoods? The protest was about police killing blacks for minor (or sometimes no) crimes. The mayor of Kenosha stated that the troops that Trump sent to “help” exacerbated the situation by attacking peaceful protestors, throwing tear gas, and shooting rubber bullets. EVERYBODY knows that the best way to “defuse” a protest about police brutality is to send in troops in unmarked uniforms and have them brutally attack anyone in sight.

    PBP’s own Larry Horist is one of the members of the “alternative media” that suggested that the Rittenhouse trial was all about 2nd Amendment and self-defense rights – in fact, I believe it was in his title… In any case, it’s about neither. The real question is, is it self-defense when you provoke someone into attacking you? Rittenhouse’s “attackers” were trying to disarm him because he was threatening people. The mayor of the city himself said that most looters were from outside of Kenosha. There were already shots fired, possibly by Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse had absolutely no reason to show up at the protest, other than a 17-year old’s sense of adventure. Many, if not most of the people looting and destroying property had nothing to do with BLM – in fact, the three people that Rittenhouse shot were white, and two of them unarmed. The third got his arm blown off, but had not attacked Rittenhouse. So, who is really the attacker and who is the defender? Those three people would be alive and/or not maimed if Rittenhouse hadn’t attacked them.

    And contrary to Old Joe Gilbertson, neighbors responding after a natural disaster is NOT the same as showing up locked and loaded, unasked, to protect the property of someone you don’t know – and then shooting that person on his own property for being a scary black man breaking into his own house. Do you REALLY think it’s better to run into someone else’s neighborhood and execute vigilante justice? 17-year old Rittenhouse decided he could be an impartial judge, jury, and executioner, in a place he didn’t know, picking out the “bad guys” from chaos, while adding to the chaos himself. He scared people into defending themselves, and then decided he could shoot them because THEY tried to disarm HIM. It will be the defense of white nationalists from now on – “I only ran them down because I was scared for my life after I bumped a few of them out of the way”.

    Reply
    • Joe Gilbertson

      Bruder, you clearly are reading the liberal rags instead following the actual case. So none of your characterization is correct. But i don’t care because you always to that anyway.

      But here is the point. If you have a gun in your hand and someone else has a rock or a stick and says they want to kill you or demonstrates by their actions that they want to harm you, do you have the right to defend yourself?

      Provoking is in the eye of the beholder. There is no law against “provoking” anyone per se (unless of course you are breaking another law). And none of the circumstances you mention are relevant, and no, this was not Trump’s fault.

      If someone is attempting to kill you then you have the right to defend yourself. In the liberal world, if a man accidentally brushes against a woman’s breast, that is assault and he goes to jail. And yet you don’t think the actions here are an indication of harmful intent?

      Reply
      • Joseph S. Bruder

        Your idiotic characterizatoin of the “liberal world” aside, weren’t Rittenhouse’s actions an indication of harmful intent? He was carrying a loaded assault rifle into a protest-turned-warzone by Trump’s brown-shirt forces. If Rittenhouse initiated the conflict and was the first agressor, then his claims of self-defense go out the window. Someone fired shots, and people were trying to disarm Rittenhouse. If he charged toward the shots, or into a crowd, then he was looking for a fight.

        See Larry’s previous article for multiple examples, but the gist is this: A guy goes into a bar and starts a fight. As soon as someone takes a swing at him, he pulls out a gun and kills the other guy. Is that self defense? He manipulates someone into a fight, then claims self defense? In your world, that’s essentially a penalty-free way to commit murder. Where is the line?

        Reply
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  8. frank stetson

    “If you have a gun in your hand and someone else has a rock or a stick and says they want to kill you or demonstrates by their actions that they want to harm you, do you have the right to defend yourself?” Actually, in most states: NO. “Provoking is in the eye of the beholder.” And therein lies the rub in the law. Each State determines what “belief in imminent danger” means and the caveats around resulting actions.

    In NJ: Self defense as a legal defense happens when a person believes that force is necessary at a specific moment in time as the only way to protect from unlawful force. There are requirements which must be met in order for the use of force to be justified as self defense.

    From Lubiner and Schmidt Law website: “New Jersey law requires that the defendant has a duty to retreat first. If this is not possible, than the defendant must have reasonable belief about three subjects in order to constitute self defense:

    The force used must be immediately necessary
    The force against the defendant must be unlawful
    The amount of force used must be necessary

    This means that the defendant must be threatened with immediate, illegal violence or other unlawful action, and that the action required the amount of force with which the defendant responded. A defense of Self Defense is disregarded if any of these conditions are not met. For example, if someone is threatening to assault you, you have the right to fight back. However, if the threat involves the use of fists, you do not have the right to pull out and use a knife on your attacker. The use of a knife is an excessive amount of force not covered under self defense. Deadly force is only justifiable if the defendant reasonable believed it was necessary to protect himself from death or serious bodily injury.

    In order to determine if the force used under self defense was unreasonable, the judge and jury must consider facts regarding the circumstances surrounding the incident. For example, the look at the size, age, and physical condition of both individuals in assessing whether self defense was necessary. Under normal circumstances, a physically fit man cannot claim self defense against a child or, in the case of a domestic violence disturbance, a physically fit man cannot declare self defense against his smaller wife/partner unless a weapon is displayed.”

    You get the drift. Kyle would have never gotten off in NJ and before you laugh, remember, NJ has a very low gun death rate, 4th lowest in the country by state.

    Wisconsin law was rewritten in 2011 using a Castle Doctrine. In Wisconsin, a person is not required to attempt to retreat. The judge started off by telling the jury exactly that. He then told them that Kyle could not provoke the attack, however if feeling in imminent danger, he can use self defense as long as all other means of avoidance are exhausted.

    This is where the vagueness in the law worked in Kyle’s favor. As Politico notes: “The first problem is that while initially suggesting that a person who provokes an attack forfeits the right to argue self-defense, the instruction immediately follows by saying that a person may act lawfully in self-defense if the attack he provokes causes him to reasonably believe that he is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In other words, if the provocation is really effective at provoking the other side, causing the provocateur to fear for his life, he can claim self-defense again. This effectively annuls the provocation exception to the law of self-defense.”

    Wisconsin law as allows provocation if said provocation is legal. As in: if a guy is walking down the street with an ar-15, that alone is not provocation because it is not illegal. Not only does this muddy things up for a jury but in Kyle’s case, once the gun infraction was dismissed, he is legal, if not, he is dead meat.

    So, the 17-year old snot-nosed kid hunting humans on Wisconsin’s city streets skips the noose because of the Wisconsin law that allows 17-years old’s to own hunting rifles presumably for hunting.

    In the end, IMO, you are correct, the whole thing boils down to does the jury feel Kyle did not provoke the fight, felt in imminent danger, had no way out, and even with vastly superior firepower, felt threatened and so could invoke self defense as an affirmative defense. It’s just that in Wisconsin, the caveats are muted, and the child gun law is, frankly, broken. I don’t think the gun law was written so kids could patrol property with ar-15’s; I don’t think you need body armor for hunting deer; everyone knows that FMJ is inferior for either hunting or self defense, but Kyle had those too. None of that really mattered to this jury, based on Wisconsin laws.

    My point all along is that the jury has spoken, seems like, based on the law and the instructions given them, they followed the law. However, there are problems with Wisconsin’s gun laws and self-defense laws that should have stopped a 17-year old with an ar-15 from being there in the first place.

    Reply
    • Jim shelton

      Kyle is free. Get over it. As for using a weapon against fists, a person receiving a serious beat down is in danger. A street fight isn’t a boxing match with referees. And a lot of things would come into play Such as a person’s character and if he started the fight. Of course an elderly person would stand a better chance of getting out of it. An old man has done lived his life and feels like he has nothing to lose It’s not all cut and dried. As for my old man comment my father taught me that several years ago. That was after I had a heated argument with an old guy. And no, I didn’t threaten him. Dad was just making sure that I didn’t go too far.

      Reply

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