Innocent until Proven Guilty? No. Trump has to Prove his Innocence
I’ve been through the indictment, I’ve read the analysis from experts. There are so many technicalities that other people would not have to worry about – like the fact that the statute of limitations apparently depends on how long he was in New York, certainly not the intent of a true statute of limitations.
But here is what troubles me most.
The indictment is dependent on his actions covering up crimes. These are “crimes” he has never been charged with, much less convicted of. If you believe the analysts, they are crimes of a federal nature, outside of the jurisdiction of the New York courts, so Bragg can’t convict him of said crimes. Never mind that the crimes were not cited in the indictment and Trump himself may not know what they are yet.
And this is the most troubling and outrageous part of this whole case.
To win this case, Trump has to prove to a bunch of biased jurists, people who almost certainly voted against him, THAT HE IS NOT GUILTY OF CRIMES WHICH HE HAS NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF, NOR EVEN ACCUSED OF.
This is unbelievable latitude for the prosecution. He can literally make up these crimes and Trump’s legal team will have to defend them. If they do not mount a defense against whatever the prosecution comes up with, then it is a simple matter of convincing the jury that they are true. Remember this is a jury randomly selected from a district that voted almost 90% against Trump. The prosecution doesn’t need proof or even evidence, he just needs a silver tongue.
Think about it. Someone accuses you of conspiracy to rob a bank, but the bank is in another state, and nobody has bothered to check if it has been robbed? Or you are accused of an out-of-state murder, and the authorities in that state are saying “Nah, he’s still walking around.”
A prosecutor with this latitude is free to pile on as many charges as he likes. He doesn’t need proof, he can bury his target in legal expenses and time consuming defenses, tar him with a bad reputation in the media, and if all of that doesn’t work, then he can start over with greater imagination.
This is contrary to Constitutional principles; it is contrary to everything we expect in our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty is a basic protection, an inalienable right in America.
And yet, the Democrats have managed to subvert these principles to attack a political enemy. I can’t say this is unprecedented since it has happened to Trump several times already (with many more in the works).
The real question is do we tolerate this kind of behavior in our politicians?
Correct! The entire “trial” MUST BE ENDED!
“To win this case, Trump has to prove to a bunch of biased jurists, people who almost certainly voted against him, THAT HE IS NOT GUILTY OF CRIMES WHICH HE HAS NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF, NOR EVEN ACCUSED OF.” Most certainly will vote against Trump is Joe being a real wimp. The big baby is crying fowl even before his chickens come home to roost. He is prepping his loss rationale because he believes TRUMP is a loser who couldn’t win a midterm in a recession. Couldn’t win a conservative court judge in a conservative State. In his heart at least he is showing he feels TRUMP will lose. Most important, Joe is tipping his hand that he feels our jury system is unfair, unjust, and unprotected and he is already blaming them for TRUMP’S pending demise.
Joe is 100% wrong and has been proven so over and over again in the vast majority of court cases in America. Every time. Every case. Not always, but most often every time anywhere in the US. Why? Because of the protections built into our system which Joe overlooks in his fervent feverish fanatical fascination with his King, TRUMP. Amazingly these conservatives talk how justice in America is unfair because rich, white people, of power, always get off. Then, on the other side of their face, they tell you how justice is unfair to the rich, white, powerful TRUMP who gets convicted unfairly. Wanna bet if TRUMP gets off, Joe will say it’s as fair as impeachment…..you’re right, he does not make sense.
First, there is the region. Joe claims voting for Biden means Trump is guilty in a court of law over finances. The trial regional demographics are about 75/25 Biden/Trump voters; however, Trump did better against Biden than Hillary meaning they are feminists too out to get TRUMP. This is so bogus that it’s laughable. A 10-person jury must be unanimous in verdict, that gives 2.5 people in this case, on average, the ability to prove Joe wrong just by saying not guilty. Second, Joe’s “they all voted for Biden so TRUMP will be found guilty” whining forgets that only 55% of the people even voted giving him a 50% chance of acquittal based on voting. And then a 75% chance of 50% or a 40% chance of automatic guilty —- hardly the bias Joe is crying a river about.
Fact of the matter is TRUMP lost the popular vote so everyone already hates him. Check his popularity and you know America will vote guilty no matter where he is tried. Even in Florida.
Then there’s the jury pool which will be over 100 prospects first filling out a really long questionnaire to rule out initial problems like bias. The questionnaire is developed and approved by TRUMP legal team and the DA.
Then there’s voir dire which Joe apparently does not understand with an UNLIMITED number of excusals for cause — hating TRUMP is a cause. Then there’s preemptory challenges against any prospective juror – for cause (which I think is still unlimited) or without cause. (a limited number) IOW — there’s multiple points for jurists to be excused for cause – an unlimited number and a number of excusals without cause by either legal team. And in high profile cases, the jury pool will start over 100; you and I would start with like 20. And the challenges may be a higher number than usual too.
Give it a rest Joe, it’s fair enough except for those attempting to whine about the outcome. Venue shopping will not buy you much; this one is a paper case.
First, I’d like to say that Joe is correct in his viewpoint of this farce. Second, since it looks like frank (big hat, no cattle) stetson thinks that he is wrong, I would like to accuse frank of being something more sub-human than human. With his liberal, heartless views of the world I would like to see him prove me wrong. This is what Trump is facing right now with that farcical dog and pony show going on in Manhattan right now, so prove me wrong!
Theo, you want me to prove that I am human?
As far as my thinking Joe is wrong, I just did. Gotta problem with any of the facts provided beyond your hatred of liberals?
Can you disprove anything I said?
Sure. I don’t hate anyone the way you do. I just think that you are an arrogant ass that always says the opposite of whatever any conservative writer has to say. You haven’t proven anything except for the fact that you can’t think for yourself. (Unless you are one of the leaders of the liberal cult that does the thinking for your masses). If I ever see a fact written down by you that isn’t just another left-wing talking point, I’ll consider your humanity. In the meantime, you are just another arrogant troll.
And Teddy can’t put together a cogent argument, just some name calling is all he’s got. He sees a fact that does not fit his rapid right-wing extremist paradigm and he tosses it out as “just another left-wing talking point.” He does not contradict, does not bring evidence to bear out, he just tosses it and calls the poster a name.
He claims I am a troll for responding to pbp posts. Someone writes the post, why can’t someone respond to the post? Thought that was the reason for the post to begin with? I realize people like Teddy just want to exist in their own echo chamber without conflicting ideas — well, that’s what he does anyways. And being a third grader calling names like that makes him cool. It just shows the world what a little man he is.
Republicans are guilty until proven innocent. Democrats are still innocent event after proven guilty. The justice system is not blind, it can clearly distinguish between red and blue.
wah, MSGLeo is crying again. Big alligator tears. Lyndsey Graham Cracker tears.
Call me Mr. Guilty, Mr Guilty is my name. I’m the one, the no good bum, that put you all to shame. Yes, you’re innocent, it’s true, you’re as pure as driven snow. I’m a cad, you’ve been had, AT LEAST AT LAST YOU KNOW.
Hey, cry. Cry me a river.
As new laws are being created such as the ability to Sue a former President at this level of Government,
Maybe an X president should be allowed to sue the DA Personally for Malicious Prosecution if no grounds are warranted.
Especially in this case were it is a personal vendetta.
Let Bragg, or George S put his money where his mouth is.
What new law was written Darren?
Do I hear Jeopardy music?
Why don’t these folks consider looking up stuff before they spew? JFGI for criminey’s sake. At least make me put some effort into showing your stupidity.
The point that all commenters (and of course the ignorant author) are missing is, Trump’s justice department has already tried, convicted and sent to jail the person that did the actual payoff. All that has to be proven is that trump was responsible for authorizing that payoff (which anyone with half a brain already knows-not saying there are any readers here who fit that requirement however). Of course they have to work on the statute of limitations-Trump was untouchable for this crime as long as he was president. However, he should be held as responsible for this action (as well as his many previous illegal activities)….
Isn’t this the DEFINITION of a “Banana Republic”?!? . . . Just ASKIN’.
And in the “Banana Republic,” who looks most like the chief orangutang what be in charge of the Republican Party?
Monkey see, monkey do eh JoeyP. Look Ma, JoeyP. Hey, clean up that mess…..
All these people who HATE Trump and say he lies have never said WHAT he supposedly lied about! I’ve yet to hear one critic say exactly” the lies”. By the way, did you know that about 40 FBI agents and Antifa members were at the Capitol urging insurrection? Maybe some “iris I.D.” might help us find out WHO the REAL insurrectionists are! Let’s start with Pelosi who orchestrated this by NOT having sufficient security, Bowser who refused any National Guard help and “intelligence” who did absolutely NOTHING.Jailing Trump supporters only makes Trump more of a martyr fighting for the “little guy”.
George, you seem deluded….honestly, what rock do you live under. Just kidding, but you do seem to be underinformed. Perhaps the following might help clarify.
delusion number 1: where are TRUMP lies? (there’s a dozen databases, verified as accurate)
TRUMP Lies database: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?tid=lk_inline_manual_22&tid=lk_inline_manual_26&tid=lk_inline_manual_31&tid=lk_inline_manual_35&itid=lk_inline_manual_35&itid=lk_inline_manual_42&itid=lk_inline_manual_20&itid=lk_inline_manual_38&itid=lk_inline_manual_28
WIKI Page of TRUMP Lies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump with five other links within to other databases.
There’s also “top ten lists,” “recent lies,” and many other databases. Apparently, the guy lies so much that databasing is relevant for cataloguing. Plus, he tends to repeat himself, repeat himself, even when he’s told he is lying.
Delusion number 2: the FBI and Antifa did it. (there is no proof except a video of two guys, one with a badge, saying some stuff)
No, there is no verified and validated proof that there were 40 FBI agents and Antifa members urging insurrection at the Capitol on 1.6.2021. Unless you count Josh Hawley’s brave supportive fist pump right before he ran like a frightened little girl. Dance clubs across American now play “do the Hawley” using “do the hustle” as sound track. In reality, only REPUBLICANS have been arrested and tried. Approximately 1,000 REPUBLICANS, with over 500 Republican convictions and not one Antifa, not one FBI agent amongst them. Guess only Republicans were stupid enough to get caught.
Delusion number 3: No, George, Pelosi is not the top cop at the Capitol. Nor is McCarthy today. The Speaker has no authority to protect or unprotect the Capitol more than any other Congressman. They are not able to call the military to battle or protect. They are not in the chain of command. Why even pick just on Pelosi? What even makes you think — she is the one? Why not Schumer, McConnell, or McCarthy? One leads the Senate and the other two are second in commands… Meanwhile, the guy who is CHARGED with Defense of the Nation, known as our Commander in Chief, invited these assholes to DC on that specific date, then set those deplorable people onto the Capitol and then watched his handiwork unfold on TV as the chaos and violence ensued while munching on some burgers before tossing them at the wall in disgust. For over three hours he sat there. Doing nothing except bitching to people who called him to ask for his help to make it all stop. As the Capitol continued to be ransacked. Live on TV for the entire world to watch what TRUMP did. REPUBLICANS took shits and pissed on the walls of our Capitol. Republicans all. Not one FBI agent was caught taking a shit. Not one Antifa pissed on the wall.
If jailing people who assisted in injuring over 140 cops, getting one protestor killed, and having a few more die afterwards, perhaps of stress from that day, leaving arms n bombs all over the place, if all of that makes TRUMP a martyr, I pray for the Trumplicant zealots avoiding the truth of all this putting him on a pedestal, above the law, hoping to install him on a throne in 2024. If this man is a martyr, then Obama is a Saint. Saint Barak and Archangel Joe. Not bloody likely for all three. They are just men. Citizens. And one is now in court for breaking the law; and will be there again. And again. And……
George, you seem deluded….honestly, what rock do you live under. Just kidding, but you do seem to be underinformed. Perhaps the following might help clarify.
delusion number 1: where are TRUMP lies? (there’s a dozen databases, verified as accurate)
*TRUMP Lies database: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?tid=lk_inline_manual_22&tid=lk_inline_manual_26&tid=lk_inline_manual_31&tid=lk_inline_manual_35&itid=lk_inline_manual_35&itid=lk_inline_manual_42&itid=lk_inline_manual_20&itid=lk_inline_manual_38&itid=lk_inline_manual_28*
WIKI Page of TRUMP Lies: *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump* with five other links within to other databases.
There’s also “top ten lists,” “recent lies,” and many other databases. Apparently, the guy lies so much that databasing is relevant for cataloguing. Plus, he tends to repeat himself, repeat himself, even when he’s told he is lying.
Delusion number 2: the FBI and Antifa did it. (there is no proof except a video of two guys, one with a badge, saying some stuff)
No, there is no verified and validated proof that there were 40 FBI agents and Antifa members urging insurrection at the Capitol on 1.6.2021. Unless you count Josh Hawley’s brave supportive fist pump right before he ran like a frightened little girl. Dance clubs across American now play “do the Hawley” using “do the hustle” as sound track. In reality, only REPUBLICANS have been arrested and tried. Approximately 1,000 REPUBLICANS, with over 500 Republican convictions and not one Antifa, not one FBI agent amongst them. Guess only Republicans were stupid enough to get caught.
Delusion number 3: No, George, Pelosi is not the top cop at the Capitol. Nor is McCarthy today. The Speaker has no authority to protect or unprotect the Capitol more than any other Congressman. They are not able to call the military to battle or protect. They are not in the chain of command. Why even pick just on Pelosi? What even makes you think — she is the one? Why not Schumer, McConnell, or McCarthy? One leads the Senate and the other two are second in commands… Meanwhile, the guy who is CHARGED with Defense of the Nation, known as our Commander in Chief, invited these assholes to DC on that specific date, then set those deplorable people onto the Capitol and then watched his handiwork unfold on TV as the chaos and violence ensued while munching on some burgers before tossing them at the wall in disgust. For over three hours he sat there. Doing nothing except bitching to people who called him to ask for his help to make it all stop. As the Capitol continued to be ransacked. Live on TV for the entire world to watch what TRUMP did. REPUBLICANS took shits and pissed on the walls of our Capitol. Republicans all. Not one FBI agent was caught taking a shit. Not one Antifa pissed on the wall.
If jailing people who assisted in injuring over 140 cops, getting one protestor killed, and having a few more die afterwards, perhaps of stress from that day, leaving arms n bombs all over the place, if all of that makes TRUMP a martyr, I pray for the Trumplicant zealots avoiding the truth of all this putting him on a pedestal, above the law, hoping to install him on a throne in 2024. If this man is a martyr, then Obama is a Saint. Saint Barak and Archangel Joe. Not bloody likely for all three. They are just men. Citizens. And one is now in court for breaking the law; and will be there again. And again. And……
It is common knowledge Trump will not get a fair trial in Manhattan. The appeal will likely get the truth of the entire matter reveled. What truth you ask, Trump is and has been targeted for a long time by the liberal left and they still have nothing which makes them even more vitriol and determined. Eventually a solid judge or justice will put the truth in front of the lies and clear Trump. Then Trump may get his well deserved justice.